Flight delay and cancellation compensation, KLM/AF ONLY

Caz3121

you will be able to find the flight details from flighstats using the date. Sounds like you are going to have to take them to court to pay out if they don't play ball. When in 2007? you only have 6 years from the date of the flight to start the court process.....you will find more details in the FAQs

sgr44

Hi all, I made a request to KLM back at the start of January about a delayed flight from 2010 and they responded saying they were investigating my claim. As I didn't want to hassle them too much I left it until March and contacted them again and got another reply on March 14th saying they were still investigating.

I was just looking to know if anyone else has any experienced these types of timelines and whether I should contact them again, or is this normal?

RobEgerton

Hi, folks.

Our cancelled (honeymoon) flight seemed to tick all the boxes for a valid claim: Within the validity period, no notice, over 24hrs delay, 10,500km.

I sent a letter to KLM Europe Customer Care Central (the only postal address I could find), but had no response after a month.

I tried to claim using their online form, but the 'date of flight' dropbox only went back to 2010. Our flight was in September, 2005!

Any ideas why, or where we can go from here?

Vauban

RobEgerton wrote: »

Hi, folks.

Our cancelled (honeymoon) flight seemed to tick all the boxes for a valid claim: Within the validity period, no notice, over 24hrs delay, 10,500km.

I sent a letter to KLM Europe Customer Care Central (the only postal address I could find), but had no response after a month.

I tried to claim using their online form, but the 'date of flight' dropbox only went back to 2010. Our flight was in September, 2005!

Any ideas why, or where we can go from here?

Oh Rob. I'm sorry to tell you that your claim is out of time. Though the regulation can backdated to 2005, in the UK you only have six years to bring the issue before a court. So KLM can safely ignore you.

tdw87uk

Hi - am in middle of discussions with AF following a delay back in 2008.

Used initial template and got the following reply:

Thank you for your recent communication regarding the disruption to your flight AF1169 from Manchester to Paris Charles de Gaulle on 28 July 2008 and the consequent delay on arrival at your final destination.
I am sorry for any inconvenience the disruption to your journey may have caused.
I can assure that this in no way reflects the standard of service we aim to provide.
Your flight was delayed as a result of an unexpected problem with the breaking gear of the flight arriving from Paris, which caused the plane to return to the stand after it was already on the runaway.
We took all the reasonable measures we could under these particular circumstances and every effort was made in order to offer you the best possible care and assistance.
According to EU recommendations, airline passengers are entitled to compensation in case of delays longer than 3 hours - unless the delay was caused by extraordinary circumstances over which we could not exercise any influence.
We have carefully considered your request and taken into account all relevant details for your delayed flight. Consequently, we confirm that the circumstances which caused this delay are considered 'extraordinary' according to the European Union regulation.
As a result, I must respectfully decline your request for legal compensation.
Thank you for allowing us this opportunity to clarify our position in this matter.
I do hope that we will have an early opportunity to serve your travel needs again in the future.

I then replied with detail from ruling about what was Extraordinary Circumstances and have now had the following reply:

I would like to take this opportunity to clarify the reasons behind my negative original reply.
While a technical problem in an aircraft which leads to the cancellation and/or delay of a flight is not covered by the concept of `extraordinary circumstances' in itself, it could not be ruled out that technical problems are exceptional circumstances to the extent that they stem from events which are not inherent in the normal exercise of the activity of the carrier concerned and are beyond its actual control.
With this decision in mind I have carefully re-examined the circumstances of the technical failure which caused the delay of the aircraft leaving from Charles de Gaulle to Manchester and consequently of your flight from Manchester back to Charles de Gaulle.
Our records show that the breaking gear problem with the aircraft planned to operate your flight cannot be considered as inherent in the normal exercise of Air France's activity in this specific case.
To explain: the inspection of the breaking gear is included in not only the usual minimum maintenance of the aircraft but in fact is an item which forms part of our additional pre-departure checks, which exceeds the minimum maintenance rules.
The breaking gear functioned correctly both at the time of its maintenance inspection and during the pre-departure check.
It later developed a fault, despite it showing to be in its usual working condition up to and during the pre-departure checks shortly before the scheduled time of departure and having passed all prior maintenance inspections (the plane was actually already taxing on the runaway when the fault presented itself).
As such, this unexpected flight safety shortcoming is viewed as outside the normal exercise of the activity of Air France and completely beyond its actual control.
Air France takes all measures to provide its customers with the best service and care, as much in terms of quality and safety as in punctuality, however despite our very best efforts, the reality is that there are rare occasions when - due to a random mechanical failure that could not have been foreseen through usual means of identification - we are unable to deliver our usual standard of service.
I thank you for allowing me this opportunity of explanation and I am sorry for any disappointment our position may cause.
However in view of our further investigation, our response to your claim for compensation under EU Regulation 261/2004 remains the same.
We hope that you will be satisfied with this explanation and that, despite your actual sentiments, you will allow us to serve your travel needs again in the near future.

HELP - where to go from here?

habibalouise

Advice needed!

In November 2008 I was due to fly with Air France from Cairo to Paris then to Manchester but the both flights were cancelled due to a pilot strike. I just had a email stating I needed to goto Cairo airport the day after I was due to fly to be put on another flight. The airport was complete ciaos and I was just to wait. Several hours later I was given a flight to Paris. Once I arrived in Paris I was expecting to have a connecting flight to Manchester but that was not the case. All of the Air France desks were closed and I was told by chance that British Airways had taken on the cancelled flights. I was traveling on my own and didnt have a clue what to do. I was told to goto all desks operating British Airways flights to see if they could get me home. All flights to Manchester were fully booked but I was Put on a cancellation list. By this time I had been stuck in Paris for over 6 hours. I was offered nothing by anyone, not even a glass of water! Finally several hours later I was told that there was 1 seat on a BMI flight as the passenger had not turned up. I took it and finally got home 3 days after I should have.
The problem is I cannot remember the flight number but I know it was around the 14th November 2008. I was told at the time that Air France would contact me but they never did so I gave up on it.

Bagpuss11

Hi, I am attempting to apply for compensation from Air France.

My flight AF442 from Paris Charles de Gaulle to Rio de Janeiro 09/03/08 at23.15 was cancelled. I had flown in toParis from Southampton a couple of hours prior to the main flight. Air France said that flight AF442 on the09/03/08 was subject to a delay (it was not a delay even the web site states itwas a cancelled flight) due to adverse weather conditions which affected theprevious aircraft rotation, specifically on the Montreal - Paris route. Theflight was renumbered 442A and departed from Paris at 07:15 on 10/03/08,arriving in Rio de Janeiro at 18:35. Therefore, causing over a 9 ½ hour delay.

They further said - In unfavourable weather conditions, such as the heavysnowfall in Montreal in this specific occasion, some flight delays andcancellations are almost unavoidable..... Furthermore, adverse weatherconditions often lead to additional delays. If a flight is not cleared todepart in dense fog or a snowstorm, for example, they will have to compete fordeparture priority when the weather clears. As only a limited number ofsimultaneous aircraft movements is possible, further waiting is inevitable.

Air France’s decision is that they have carefully reconsidered my requestand taken into account all relevant details for my delayed flight (it was notdelayed as previously said it was cancelled the website said so). Consequently,Air France confirm that the circumstances which caused this delay areconsidered 'extraordinary' according to the European Union regulation. As aresult, they must respectfully decline my compensation request.

Is this correct that my flight can be cancelled in Paris because of a snow storm in Montreal a different country and not be able to apply for compensation. Please help.

Bagpuss11

Thank you Centipede 100,

I will write again to Air France and wait for their response. Ill keep you updated with the outcome.

Bagpuss11

Hi, I wrote to the airline again and have received a further response within 4 days that must be a record. So its time to take further action. There response as follows:

In reference to your last email of 18 May, I would like to state that it is always a matter of concern to us when our costumers remain dissatisfied but must maintain that Air France cannot accommodate your request for compensation in this case for reasons previously explained........

I must point out that Air France owns a limited number of each aircraft type and only a handful of high-capacity ones such as the Boeing 747-400 scheduled to operate your flight AF 442 on 9 March 2008. Substituting the original aircraft would have meant cancelling another flight, therefore inconveniencing other passengers. Therefore, the decision taken at the time was to wait for the weather conditions in Montreal to improve and delay the flight departure from Paris as a consequence.

I regret we have been unable to resolve this matter to your satisfaction, but I trust you will understand our position. We look forward to welcoming you on board under more favourable circumstances in the future.

kuku104

Hi,

I was supposed to fly AF via Paris to Johannesburg on 10/05/13. When i got to boarding gate for the flight to Paris, i found out (by overhearing someone else complain rather than a notice from the airline) that the flight to JNB was delayed by over 9 hrs meaning that I would have to spend overnight in Paris and take a day flight to JNB (effectively wasting the whole day).

I wrote to AF with the citing the standard EU regulations and requesting EUR 600 compensation. Below is their reply:-

"Having examined our records, I can see the flight concerned was delayed due to unexpected problems with the fire seal on engine 3. A technical issue like this, that is encountered unexpectedly, which presents itself beyond our scope of influence and is a threat to flight safety, can be regarded as an extraordinary circumstance and therefore is not one here there is an entitlement to compensation under EU regulations. Accordingly, I regret but have to respectfully decline your request for legal compensation on this occasion.
I can assure you that all reasonable measures were taken in order to minimise the impact of this delay, including contacting passenger in advance when and where possible, providing all care and assistance due and arranging alternative flights."


I have a couple of issues with their response and circumstances on the day:-
- I am no avaiation expert and therefore have no way of ascertaining whether the fire seal fault was extra ordinary or not. I intend to highlight the Bock case to notify them that techincal faults do not fall under the category of extraordinary. Does anyone know if this fault applies as extra ordinary?

- Scanning through my emails, i have found an email from them on the date of departure at 6.41pm (i was due to fly to Paris at 8.10pm) stating that the JNB flight was delayed. I had not actually seen this email, however, it means that when I checked in at approximately 6.30pm they knew that the flight was delayed and could concievably put me onto another flight e.g SAA.

- Weirdly enough, on 02 May i got an email from AF asking me to update my passport details on their site. When I looked on the site, the same flight that was significantly delayed was showing as "Cancelled". I called AF and asked them to confirm that the flight was definitely not cancelled the next day, they confirmed it on the phone, and i also requested an email confirmation (which they just sent an itinerary). I think that this is too coincidental.


Any advice on how i can take this further?

Any help much appreciated.

thanks