Flight delay and cancellation compensation, Jet2.com ONLY

NoviceAngel

Squirreling wrote: »

..........
We’ve messaged Jet2 for at least a refund of my return journey. Depending on their response it’ll be a matter then of seeking compensation so that we’re no worse off than those who stayed with the flight. In view of the fact we volunteered to help Jet2 out, I would expect to be treated more generously that the legal requirement.
This thread and all your contributions help considerably in developing a way forward.

If you accepted a full refund of your return flight - I fear you have waived your rights away to compensation under EC261/2004.....

Don’t feel bad you’re not the only one we need to give bad news to.

The rules are that if you accept and receive a refund for a flight then any liability that comes with EC261/2004 is squashed. I’m hoping that some of the regulars have a different take on matters but I’m not hopeful - I hope to be proved wrong

Reg_Hedge

Surely, the same applies to Squirrel as ourselves; we accepted an offer that was made without disclosing our rights under 261 - and so did Squirrel? So he's entitled to claim?


Happy to swap thoughts offline Squirrelling? feel free to drop me a PM.

Reg_Hedge

Squirreling wrote: »

Yes Reg Hedge we were the couple amongst others who decided not to fly to Glasgow and then took the EasyJet flight direct to Manchester. We did not therefore receive the pre boarding form you received. The only letter we saw was the one at 1615 which you repeated in this thread, setting out Jet2 view of the options available.
As a first timer to being left stranded like this with a nervous flyer as my companion and with a plane with multiple faults some not fully disclosed, the first thing on your mind is safety and getting home. It’s been really instructive to read the contributions from everybody contributing to this thread.
We’ve messaged Jet2 for at least a refund of my return journey. Depending on their response it’ll be a matter then of seeking compensation so that we’re no worse off than those who stayed with the flight. In view of the fact we volunteered to help Jet2 out, I would expect to be treated more generously that the legal requirement.
This thread and all your contributions help considerably in developing a way forward.
Apologies for being a clumsy novice in these matters, but I’m well over 70 and still learning!
We weren’t aware that some were compulsorily bumped off the flight; we assumed that this plan had failed and in our rear cabin, the next intervention was the seeking of volunteers.

I don't think you have anything whatsoever to apologise for! I have very quickly become an armchair expert on EC261, but when we were all stood by the baggage reclaim on Monday evening, I'd never heard of it.

NoviceAngel

Even though it sounds completely unfair....


My understanding of the regs are that if you accept a refund for the flight then you literally throw your rights away for any compensation under the EC261 regs...


If I’m wrong then I’ll be put in my place very quickly....

I hope someone can shed some light on the situation

PomBear

Reg_Hedge wrote: »

Surely, the same applies to Squirrel as ourselves; we accepted an offer that was made without disclosing our rights under 261 - and so did Squirrel? So he's entitled to claim?

I think we need to go back to the regulation here, and recheck the wording and any case law. But, if I understand correctly, you (Reg Hedge) weren’t a willing volunteer, you did not accept a refund and your rights under 261/2004 weren’t explained. As Tyzap stated, Article 15 is therefore applicable and you can defeat the signed agreement. Despite your signature it can be set aside ( i.e the ‘agreement’ isn’t enforceable) because EU law (which states they can’t do that) prevails.

From what I understand, Squirreling volunteered and accepted a refund, which crucially waives the clause. That said, the question is were the options explained to Squirreling? If they weren’t then it is less clear cut, but hopefully arguable as misrepresentation.

Hopefully legal magpie is around and can explain, I’m not sure and the above is my understanding only. My case concerned whether or not extraordinary circumstances existed, which in your case they didn’t. Seems like a last ditch attempt from Jet2 to wriggle out of their legal responsibilities.

legal_magpie

Here's a real lawyer's answer for you. The law isn't clear. It is correct that accepting a refund is usually the end of the matter and compensation cannot follow. BUT would you, Squirelling, have accepted a refund if your rights and your options had been explained to you first. The key point here is that:
(a) Airlines know all about the regulations. The public don't.
(b) In particular, the airlines know the various options and the consequences that flow from each option. The public don't.
(c) It is in the airline's interests not to tell the public about (b) above at a refund is usually the cheapest option and it also means that the airline has no further responsibility.

So, as a matter of law, is the airline required to tell the passengers ALL their options and consequences? In my view, yes because of regulation 14 which says

Article 14

Obligation to inform passengers of their rights

1. The operating air carrier shall ensure that at check-in a clearly legible notice containing the following text is displayed in a manner clearly visible to passengers: "If you are denied boarding or if your flight is cancelled or delayed for at least two hours, ask at the check-in counter or boarding gate for the text stating your rights, particularly with regard to compensation and assistance".

2. An operating air carrier denying boarding or cancelling a flight shall provide each passenger affected with a written notice setting out the rules for compensation and assistance in line with this Regulation. It shall also provide each passenger affected by a delay of at least two hours with an equivalent notice. The contact details of the national designated body referred to in Article 16 shall also be given to the passenger in written form.

It follows from this that, in my opinion, if the airline has failed to comply with article 14, it cannot rely on the settlement. This is reinforced by Article 15 which others have mentioned.
Having said that, I am not aware of any decided case on the subject but I stress that I'm not an expert on the regulations and if Coby Benson of Bott and Co still reads these posts, I'd appreciate his views.

If I may digress by giving you an analogy from the Laws of Bridge. Where an infringement of the laws takes place and the laws provide the innocent party with a choice of remedies, the Tournament Director is REQUIRED to tell the innocent party of all the options and the consequences of each one BEFORE the innocent party decides.

NoviceAngel

legal_magpie wrote: »

Here's a real lawyer's answer ..... I'm not an expert on the regulations and if Coby Benson of Bott and Co still reads these posts, I'd appreciate his views

Thank you for your expert opinion. I think Coby will be made aware of this case should it be necessary but I’m sure Jet2 will just admit they made a mistake and pay up - I’m such a liar
:A

Squirreling

Thanks for the full legal explanation. As consequences of actions and regulations were not explained by Jet2, I think that those who opted for a refund should be treated no less fairly than those who remained on the flight. Our conditions were worse than those who remained on the original flight, we were about 5 hours late getting to Manchester, and I think this should be reflected in outcomes.

Currently waiting for a response from Jet2 and then we’ll know more.

Thanks for all the inputs. Very much appreciated.

NoviceAngel

You’re more than welcome squirrelling
This does seem to be a waiting game but you and Reg both should know that you’ll both have support from myself and members far more knowledgeable than myself on your side, we’ll get though this mess that J2 have left you in...

I’ve lost count to my Court adventures with J2 I think I’ve won 4 out of five - one lost due to snow and ATC restrictions at LBA !! Can’t win them all

PomBear

Squirreling, they treated you appallingly. Just want to second what NoviceAngel has said, Good luck!