Flight delay and cancellation compensation, Jet2.com ONLY

JPears

Ah but Jet2 say there is no evidence that older aircraft are less reliable/cause more delays......
Hmmm, yeah right - whats more likely to get me a 1000 miles to the south of France and back with out problems - a 5 year old Seat or a 25 year old Seat?

NoviceAngel

Yeah I remember it well, they won't buy the Dreamliner because of the battery problem, otherwise they'd have a fleet of them, can't believe the DJ accepted that tosh!

Tyzap

howticklediam wrote: »

If an aircraft is leased does that absolve the operator of any responsibility for maintenance and/or equipment failure?

I've never heard of it being put forward as a defence before so I guess not.

Howticklediam,

It's a 'red herring'

Whichever airline you made your booking with is responsible. It does not matter if they decide to put you on another airlines aircraft that they have brought in to operate on their behalf.

For example...

Jet2 have leased a couple of aircraft for the summer, one of them is a Titan Airways A320 which they have based at Glasgow. If you were delayed on this aircraft you would still claim from Jet2, not Titan.

Good luck.

howticklediam

Thanks guys.

111KAB

The comments made by howticklediam do however go some way to explaining the problems encountered by airlines when a plane goes tech and indeed, unless the airlines/aviation leasing firms review their leasing arrangements 3 hour + delays will continue.


Basically if a plane goes tech the airlines have 3 alternatives - repair, substitute or delay. Only simple tech problems can be repaired within 3 hours, substitute planes probably take longer to obtain (Ryanair, BA, easyJet often 'win' on this basis as they have hubs all over the place) for the smaller airlines so delay is the only result for the likes of Thomson, Thomas Cook, Monarch, Jet2 although the latter has stationed a 'spare' Boeing at Alicante for this purpose.


It is not unusual for a plane to be leased from one company and the engines from another so there can be different leasing arrangements for the same plane. Often the conditions of the lease will say that only (eg) Monarch engineers can work on this engine so that Monarch and their Engineering facility (MAEL) remain 100% responsible for the engine thus if your plane goes kaput in Sharm you may have to wait until an engineer is flown out from the UK.


Basically if you fly with a larger airline (say 50 plus) you are more likely to fly on a newer aircraft with backup facilities should a plane go tech - all as proven by punctuality figures.


Until the airlines (but more importantly the leasing firms) cooperate with each other and allow their planes/engines to be 'worked on' by local engineers the delay problems will continue. It is akin to your Ford Focus you purchased in Nottingham only being able to be repaired by the Nottingham garage when you are on holiday in Cornwall.


One of the delays I suffered was as a result of a hydraulic pipe failure - parts had to be flown out from the UK whereas Air Berlin stocked the relevant part at the airport where the delay occurred however there was no mechanism for the airlines to deal with each other.


None of this helps with your delay claim however goes some way to explaining why tech delays often exceed the 3 hour threshold - until the industry start cooperating with each other (both in terms of repair and allowing delayed passengers to fill empty spaces on a rivals plane) they will be faced with 261/2004 claims so do not feel sorry for them as the remedy is often in their own hands.

DrA_Harrogate

Look at:
https://www.conklindd.com/t-howoldistooold.aspx
and:
http://www.rand.org/content/dam/rand/pubs/monographs/2006/RAND_MG486.pdf
for details on older aircraft.

JPears

But there is also the considerable effects of:
1. Turnaround times. 45 minutes or less is the norm for some airlines. There is no latitude for any delay causing issue, such as a tech, baggage handling etc.
2. "Beasting" of aircraft that are probably not designed for 18-22 hour daily use, day in day out.
3. Or not having the systems or servicing in place to satisfy the increased needs of the high use aircraft.

NoviceAngel

Some economy carriers like Ryanair have quite a modern fleet and still flog their aircraft 24hours a day, others like Jet2 start with the cast offs from China, so it is expected that further delays will be inherent in the running of the aircraft.

I personally don't have a real problem with them running an old fleet, as long as they have standby aircraft that they can pull in at a moments notice or have better servicing arrangements as 111KAB was pointing out.

I think EC261 has undoubtedly helped focus air carriers minds when purchasing and servicing aircraft but with Jet2 there still is some way to go.....

JPears

"I think EC261 has undoubtedly helped focus air carriers minds when purchasing and servicing aircraft but with Jet2 there still is some way to go..... "
Novice, you are too generous

NoviceAngel

JPears wrote: »

"I think EC261 has undoubtedly helped focus air carriers minds when purchasing and servicing aircraft but with Jet2 there still is some way to go..... "
Novice, you are too generous

What can I say, yeah probably but going on holiday Monday so don't want a delay.... And already getting into that holiday mood feeling, won't be flying with our friends though this time, driving down to East Mids to avoid them...... I just hope I don't have to take a seat in Dr Watsons surgery afterwards, never did fully understand that ESCP thingi