Flight delay and cancellation compensation, Ryanair ONLY

bignred05

fifeken wrote: »

I suspect the time to organise coaches and get you there would have resulted in an even greater delay in getting back to Prague than they actually experienced. The plane had another rotation from Prague to Stansted and back that day, and both legs arrived less than 3 hours late. A further delay may have opened them up to compensation claims for these two flights.

sounds very plausible that

will be interesting to see what Ryanair's response is to my claim and no doubt others.

Tyzap

Hi bignred05,

You should have been offered a triple choice along these lines...

b. Right to reimbursement, re-routing or rebooking in the event of denied boarding or cancellation
Article 8(1) of the Regulation imposes on air carriers the obligation to offer passengers a triple choice, between (i) reimbursement of the ticket price36 and, in the case of connections, a return flight to the airport of departure at the earliest opportunity, (ii) re-routing to their final destination either at the earliest opportunity or, (iii) re-routing at a later date at the passenger’s convenience under comparable transport conditions, subject to availability of seats. As a general principle, when the passenger is informed about the cancellation of the flight and is correctly informed on the available choices, the choice offered to passengers under Article 8(1) is to be made once. In such cases, as soon as the passenger has chosen one of the three options under Article 8(1)(a),(b) or (c), the air carrier no longer has any obligation linked to the other two options. Nonetheless, the obligation to compensation may still apply according to Article 5(1)(c) in connection with Article 7.

In my opinion your flight was not diverted to Manchester, it was redirected by their ops dept. A conscious decision to abandon all their passengers at Liverpool for an unknown reason. Perhaps the 2.5 hours at Manchester had something to do with it, a minor tec problem perhaps.

When the aircraft approached LPL it maintained 8,000ft and turned around over the sea n/w of Liverpool city centre. It made no attempt to land at LPL, which suggests the windy conditions were not a factor in the decision to go to MAN.

For your perusal, here are the interpretive guidelines which attempt to clarify the EC261 regulations in more general terms...

https://ec.europa.eu/transport/sites/transport/files/themes/passengers/news/doc/2016-06-10-better-enforcement-pax-rights/c%282016%293502_en.pdf

Good luck

bignred05

Out of interest if we don't check in for the return flight** will this effect any compensation/refund

** I've just tried to check in but it won't let me, is this right ?

bignred05

Tyzap wrote: »

Hi bignred05,

You should have been offered a triple choice along these lines...

b. Right to reimbursement, re-routing or rebooking in the event of denied boarding or cancellation
Article 8(1) of the Regulation imposes on air carriers the obligation to offer passengers a triple choice, between (i) reimbursement of the ticket price36 and, in the case of connections, a return flight to the airport of departure at the earliest opportunity, (ii) re-routing to their final destination either at the earliest opportunity or, (iii) re-routing at a later date at the passenger’s convenience under comparable transport conditions, subject to availability of seats. As a general principle, when the passenger is informed about the cancellation of the flight and is correctly informed on the available choices, the choice offered to passengers under Article 8(1) is to be made once. In such cases, as soon as the passenger has chosen one of the three options under Article 8(1)(a),(b) or (c), the air carrier no longer has any obligation linked to the other two options. Nonetheless, the obligation to compensation may still apply according to Article 5(1)(c) in connection with Article 7.

In my opinion your flight was not diverted to Manchester, it was redirected by their ops dept. A conscious decision to abandon all their passengers at Liverpool for an unknown reason. Perhaps the 2.5 hours at Manchester had something to do with it, a minor tec problem perhaps.

When the aircraft approached LPL it maintained 8,000ft and turned around over the sea n/w of Liverpool city centre. It made no attempt to land at LPL, which suggests the windy conditions were not a factor in the decision to go to MAN.

For your perusal, here are the interpretive guidelines which attempt to clarify the EC261 regulations in more general terms...

https://ec.europa.eu/transport/sites/transport/files/themes/passengers/news/doc/2016-06-10-better-enforcement-pax-rights/c%282016%293502_en.pdf

Good luck

Thanks for the update

my first impression when I herd about the diversion to Manchester was, its OK they will just bus us all to Manchester

as I have mentioned I asked this both inside still airside at the gate and outside at the Ryanair/Serviceair desk, but even inside the airport the Ryanair staff stated the pilot had cancelled the flight so that won't happen.

as for being offered Rerouting etc, NOT A CHANCE

at first there was one very young lady on here own plus another older lady (both where Serviceair staff and not Ryanair) a short while later an older lady appeared weather her shift was a bout to start or she was just sent to help out is unclear.

However this lady pointed out to another lone passenger that there was 3 seats left on a Easyjet flight the following day (Saturday) at £81, she was quite clear that this lady would have to book this herself and claim it back.
she was also clear in the fact there was no other flights to Prague until later in the week (later when I got home Skyscanner had several flights from Manchester the following day)

I've just been googling Ryanair and EU261 delay compensation, Ryanair mention about rerouting but it appears to mention only on similar "budget" airlines, BUT NO SUCH OFFER WAS MADE TO ME OR ANYONE ELSE WHILST i WAS AT THE DESK, QUITE THE OPPOSITE REALLY

Thank you for your update


*** out of interest could we have chosen another weekend flight without having to pay to pay the difference

also what would of happened to all the passengers who got off the flight at Manchester, are they not supposed to get them to Liverpool

JPears

Ryanair may have already unilaterally processed a refund for your return flightAs Tyzap has suggested, your plane may have had technical, or a crew change was required but the crew was in the wrong airport/position, possibly due to weather.
Whilst the aircraft had a heavy schedule, it won't be the same crew all day.

Tyzap

bignred05 wrote: »

Thanks for the update

*** out of interest could we have chosen another weekend flight without having to pay to pay the difference

I believe they claim so.

also what would of happened to all the passengers who got off the flight at Manchester, are they not supposed to get them to Liverpool

They would have been bussed back to Liverpool, possibly within the 3 hr delay time so probably no compensation for them.



To get that aircrafts schedule back on track, you can see how they have mitigated their losses. There was no way of preventing claims from you and your fellow passengers so you were abandoned. Now they will work hard to cut down the number of successful claimants from your flight. It's a war of attrition, and Ryanair are the masters of it.

This type of systematic abuse of the regulations by RA was not foreseen by the regulators 15 years ago and thats why it's so difficult for passengers in your position.

JPears

And so a letter of complaint to the CAA must be made highlighting this massive and systematic abuse of the paying passenger.
To the airlines it is purely a numbers game. They pay only minimal lip service to customer service.

bignred05

Just had a reply off Ryanair from my claim submitted on Saturday

They have knocked back the whole claim (Eu261 & Hotel) stating as due to adverse weather etc it couldn’t land no mention as to why they never buses us to Manchester either

We refer to your online claim dated 14th October 2018.

We sincerely regret the cancellation of your flight FR8561 from Liverpool to Prague on the 12/10/2018, which was caused due to adverse weather conditions, wind, outside of our control.

As this cancellation was unexpected and therefore outside Ryanair’s control, we regret to advise that no monetary compensation is due under EU Regulation 261/2004.

We are not liable for any services that you prepaid for your flight.

We trust that the above has clarified matters in this regard.





Obviously I’m not happy with this and would appreciate advice on what to do next

Thanks

JPears

If that is their final response then go to ADR.
You could write again sayiing that weather was not an issue (if you are sure it wasn't given the other flight movements) but frankly I think you are wasting your time. However you could mark it as an NBA/LBA then you don't need to go back to them, should the ADR fail you and you have to go ESCP route.

Tyzap

Hi Bignred05,

IMO you should try ADR (AviationADR) first, as the ESCP route is not an easy or quick route but is one which you could still return to in the future.

I don't agree with JP that you would be wasting your time!

https://www.aviationadr.org.uk/how-to-complain-about/airline-complaints/

It won't cost you anything so worth a try.