Flight delay and cancellation compensation, BA ONLY

JPears

Goldyfish - it doesn't really matter for your return flight - your were delayed more than 3 hours. If its a distance related compo then it should probably be your start estination that counts, if it s a single ticket for the whole journey?

stewartmnd

Goldfishy wrote: »

Hi,

I was supposed to fly from Glasgow to Gatwick, then from Gatwick to Tampa, Florida. However the Glasgow to Gatwick flight was cancelled because of a technical fault. This meant I missed my flight to Tampa so flew on the equivalent flight the next day. As I understand it, I'm probably entitled to 600EUR per person since I arrived at my final destination 24 hours later than scheduled. The entire journey was booked at the same time in one booking. I say 'probably' because the technical fault issue is something of a grey area.

However, we were also delayed on the way home, and the circumstances are a little more complex. We left Tampa and arrived in Gatwick on time. The Gatwick to Glasgow flight was delayed 3h 16mins. When I'm writing to BA to claim for this delay, what should I be asking for? I'm not sure what conditions apply to me, and I can't find anything online that definitively answers my scenario. In this situation what is the departure airport? Is it Tampa since that was the starting destination of the journey, or is it Gatwick because that's where the delay started? Ultimately, I want to know what classification of compensation applies.

Thanks,

Fish

Hi was your flight from Glasgow cancelled on 26th march by any chance.

Goldfishy

stewartmnd wrote: »

Hi was your flight from Glasgow cancelled on 26th march by any chance.

No - it was a May flight. Why do you ask?

kilo5

David_e wrote: »

Indeed, that's what I said and the quote is from the relevant legislation so quite difficult for an airline to argue against!

Your problem was caused by the failure to have an aircraft in Naples to operate your flight (and failure to procure one when the intended one didn't arrive).



Well, only to the extent that the latter has some legal meaning and the former doesn't. If anything an "operational circumstance" sounds like something that the airline can and should be managing rather than an excuse! It certainly points more to something within the control of the airline than outside.

I'd write back and refer them to the quote in my earlier post but also I would make it an NBA as, if they don't pay up this time, you'll need to take legal action.

Just had my third refusal from BA as follows:


Thank you for writing back to us.

I have reviewed your claim for compensation and as previously advised, your flight BA2613 on 15 February 2014 was cancelled due to operational circumstances and adverse weather conditions at London Gatwick in the morning. Diversion were also seen at London Gatwick due to thunderstorm activity.

I can assure you that we make every reasonable effort to avoid delays and cancellations, but in these circumstances it cannot be avoided and under EU legislation, British Airways is not liable for a compensation payment when the cancellation is due to weather.

Due to weather conditions Air Traffic Control had to restrict aircraft operations for safety reasons. Although some flights were able to operate as normal, your flight was one of those we had to cancel.

Article 5.3 of the EU Regulation 261/2004 states that a carrier is not obliged to pay compensation if it can prove that the delay or cancellation is caused by extraordinary circumstances that could not have been avoided even if all reasonable measures had been taken. In Recital 14 and 15 of EU Regulation 261/2004, extraordinary circumstances include weather, strike and the impact of an air traffic management decision which gives rise to cancellation. I regret, therefore you are not entitled to compensation under the EU Regulation for your cancelled flight.

I realise that this will be disappointing for you but I hope this information will enable you to understand our decision.


Best regards


Hiral Vora
EU Compensation Claims

It was the outbound flight from LGW that was affected by "weather" not our from flight from Naples! Despite the fact I sent a NBA letter stating that this outbound flight was the only flight cancelled on the day out of LGW.


Is it worth trying a NWNF company now?


Thanks

Vauban

kilo5 wrote: »

Just had my third refusal from BA as follows:


Thank you for writing back to us.

I have reviewed your claim for compensation and as previously advised, your flight BA2613 on 15 February 2014 was cancelled due to operational circumstances and adverse weather conditions at London Gatwick in the morning. Diversion were also seen at London Gatwick due to thunderstorm activity.

I can assure you that we make every reasonable effort to avoid delays and cancellations, but in these circumstances it cannot be avoided and under EU legislation, British Airways is not liable for a compensation payment when the cancellation is due to weather.

Due to weather conditions Air Traffic Control had to restrict aircraft operations for safety reasons. Although some flights were able to operate as normal, your flight was one of those we had to cancel.

Article 5.3 of the EU Regulation 261/2004 states that a carrier is not obliged to pay compensation if it can prove that the delay or cancellation is caused by extraordinary circumstances that could not have been avoided even if all reasonable measures had been taken. In Recital 14 and 15 of EU Regulation 261/2004, extraordinary circumstances include weather, strike and the impact of an air traffic management decision which gives rise to cancellation. I regret, therefore you are not entitled to compensation under the EU Regulation for your cancelled flight.

I realise that this will be disappointing for you but I hope this information will enable you to understand our decision.


Best regards


Hiral Vora
EU Compensation Claims

It was the outbound flight from LGW that was affected by "weather" not our from flight from Naples! Despite the fact I sent a NBA letter stating that this outbound flight was the only flight cancelled on the day out of LGW.

Is it worth trying a NWNF company now?

Thanks

Well it looks like you are going to have to take legal action one way or another. Worth seeing whether a NWNF company will take it on, if you don't want to yourself (though the process isn't so complex really).

At one level, your claim is very simple: meteorological conditions are only extraordinary if they affect the flight concerned, according to the Regulation. In practice however it might be a bit more tricky, as a District Judge could be persuaded that fundamentally the cause of the was the weather, and this was wholly outside the airlines control.

So you might also need therefore to rely upon the second Wallentin legal argument, which is that - even if the cause of the delay was extraordinary - the airline needs to use "all of its resources" to prevent the delay.

This was part of my own argument in court and, though never really tested, I think it is reasonably compelling if argued properly. Paras 16-19 seem the most pertinent to your own case:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ihnjrek7x1dxnm5/final%20submission.pdf

Good luck with your claim.

kilo5

David_e wrote: »

Indeed, that's what I said and the quote is from the relevant legislation so quite difficult for an airline to argue against!

Your problem was caused by the failure to have an aircraft in Naples to operate your flight (and failure to procure one when the intended one didn't arrive).



Well, only to the extent that the latter has some legal meaning and the former doesn't. If anything an "operational circumstance" sounds like something that the airline can and should be managing rather than an excuse! It certainly points more to something within the control of the airline than outside.

I'd write back and refer them to the quote in my earlier post but also I would make it an NBA as, if they don't pay up this time, you'll need to take legal action.

Vauban wrote: »

Well it looks like you are going to have to take legal action one way or another. Worth seeing whether a NWNF company will take it on, if you don't want to yourself (though the process isn't so complex really).

At one level, your claim is very simple: meteorological conditions are only extraordinary if they affect the flight concerned, according to the Regulation. In practice however it might be a bit more tricky, as a District Judge could be persuaded that fundamentally the cause of the was the weather, and this was wholly outside the airlines control.

So you might also need therefore to rely upon the second Wallentin legal argument, which is that - even if the cause of the delay was extraordinary - the airline needs to use "all of its resources" to prevent the delay.

This was part of my own argument in court and, though never really tested, I think it is reasonably compelling if argued properly. Paras 16-19 seem the most pertinent to your own case


Good luck with your claim.

Thanks, I have just replied to BA quoting Finnair Oyj v
Timy Lassooy para 37 "In addition, it is apparent from recital 15 in the preamble to Regulation No 261/2004 that ‘extraordinary circumstances’ may relate only to ‘a particular aircraft on a particular day’, which cannot apply to a passenger denied boarding because of the rescheduling of flights as a result of extraordinary circumstances affecting an earlier flight"

As they are saying BA2612 was cancelled by weather and we were on BA2613...


I will keep you updated.

Mark2spark

The Finnair case doesn't relate to your case Kilo. Better if you just quote the regulation bit that says weather is only on the flight concerned.
But you're playing letter ping pong really.
Do you think that one more letter will make them change their minds and pay up?
Court action beckons my friend...

Batchy1

Hello all,
No doubt this site has gone into overload since the latest ruling was made. I had already made a claim to BA that had been refused, but in light of the Huzar news, I went back to BA referring them to this. Here is the latest reply I have received.
The EU has published a list of what National Enforcement Bodies consider extraordinary circumstances. This includes any other technical defects which become apparent immediately prior to departure or in-flight where the system or part had been maintained in accordance with the required maintenance programme and which require investigation and/or repair before the aircraft is airworthy for the intended flight.
Your flight was delayed as the aircraft suffered an oil leak from the engine number two and it required a replacement seal. Under EU legislation, British Airways is not liable for a compensation payment in this situation.
Article 5.3 of the EU Regulation 261/2004 states that a carrier is not obliged to pay compensation if it can prove that the delay or cancellation is caused by extraordinary circumstances that could not have been avoided even if all reasonable measures had been taken. I regret, therefore you are not entitled to compensation under the EU Regulation for your delayed flight.
I am wondering if there is anyone out there that can assist me with the wording on what I should say to them next? ( I have read the FAQ's and used the template letter already) Many thanks in advance.

Vauban

Batchy1: You take them to court.

TrevorSmith

Hi Batchy1

I am in almost the same position as you; a three times refused claim to BA. I am giving them one last chance to change their decision - in my last message to them which was sent after tha Huzar case decision, I explicitly said that the exceptional circumstances argument does not hold. I have been waiting for a reply for a few days now - they seem to have gone rather quiet. If I don't hear in a couple more days, I will begin court action.