Flight delay and cancellation compensation, BA ONLY

JPears

Biggest load of guff sen for a while.

All this happened way earlier in the day, if not before and BA would/should have monitored the situation all day to make contigencies for the next day. They didn't.

ArKay

I agree but going to CEDR or any industry led arbitration service is always fraught with bluster and in any case the result is not legally binding so you could always follow it up in court. For both these reasons, whenever I take an airline on (and I have done so and won compensation 3 times now - against Easyjet / BA / TUI (may have been Thomson) I give them 14 days warning with a FINAL LETTER BEFORE ACTION and then just go straight to small claims court, which is now called money claims online. I find the legal process easy. Sometimes the airline do not even bother to defend it and you win automatically - but they will always throw up a smokescreen in the hope you will go away. After all, most people do if they bluster enough and that is what saves them money. I do not have time to go into details but if you have read the guidance and you are clear the crew would be out of hours then the responsibility is clearly theirs. Don't go to CEDR. Go to court. Quicker and easier. There is lost of precedence published from British courts (even small claims court) and European court to help you back your claims.

JPears

Having endured the complexity and eternity of CEDR process for a straightforward claim, I tend to agree....

super_saint

super_saint said:

Tyzap said:

super_saint wrote: »

So BA have refused a second time - Firstly is there a time limit to appeal BA's decision to decline my request - flight was in August & they refused compensation in Nov (completely forget about it!!)


In everyones's opinion what are my chances in taking this further with CEDR? I notice you say it's free but I see a £25 admin charge to make a case


Any advise greatly received

Your chances of a favourable decision from CEDR are very good imo as BA would have known the flight crew would be out of hours before the plane left Gatwick.

On the basis that BA knowingly allowed the delay to occur, you chances at CEDR are very good.

Be sure to provide the link to the BA Source when you lodge your claim.

The £25, I understand, is only requested if you lodge a frivolous claim for an obviously hopeless claim that wastes everyones time.

Good luck.

I have received the attached lengthy response from BA following claim thru CEDR
Can i assume that's the end of the road??

Thanks for all your comments
SO on the CEDR website, it states I have until 3rd March for me to respond with comments.
Do I just go back & say BA are trying to blind me with science BUT at the end of the day they knew crew would be over their hours early in the day & should have made arrangements & therefore I should still be entitled to compensation??

ArKay

super_saint said:

As I said. Don't waste time with them but even if you do and even if 'lose' you have 7 years to lay a claim through the courts. Simples! 
super_saint said:

Tyzap said:

super_saint wrote: »

So BA have refused a second time - Firstly is there a time limit to appeal BA's decision to decline my request - flight was in August & they refused compensation in Nov (completely forget about it!!)


In everyones's opinion what are my chances in taking this further with CEDR? I notice you say it's free but I see a £25 admin charge to make a case


Any advise greatly received

Your chances of a favourable decision from CEDR are very good imo as BA would have known the flight crew would be out of hours before the plane left Gatwick.

On the basis that BA knowingly allowed the delay to occur, you chances at CEDR are very good.

Be sure to provide the link to the BA Source when you lodge your claim.

The £25, I understand, is only requested if you lodge a frivolous claim for an obviously hopeless claim that wastes everyones time.

Good luck.

I have received the attached lengthy response from BA following claim thru CEDR
Can i assume that's the end of the road??

Thanks for all your comments
SO on the CEDR website, it states I have until 3rd March for me to respond with comments.
Do I just go back & say BA are trying to blind me with science BUT at the end of the day they knew crew would be over their hours early in the day & should have made arrangements & therefore I should still be entitled to compensation??

planegirl

Hi All, looking for input on previous experience with claiming delayed flight compensation from BA in case of crew sickness. 
We were on a flight from Mexico City to London Heathrow that was 21 hours delayed due to the Captain being taken ill. Clearly they did not have a standby in Mexico City, and as this was the day of storm Ciara in Europe, the argument is that they could not get a replacement Captain to Mexico any earlier. BA have covered various cost (hotel, food etc) but are refusing to pay EU compensation on the grounds of extraordinary circumstances. I am aware of the case that was ruled against them in District Court a few years ago (but which does not set precedent). Has anyone seen them agreeing to pay compensation in similar circumstances? Is it worth pushing them or going through CEDR or Claims Online? Thank you in advance! 

ArKay

It is worth following this up and taking them to court (as opposed to CEDR which is a waste of time because it is not final or enforceable) and I still believe you will win. It all hinges on the defintiion of "extraordinary circumstances". One of the greatest arguments I saw which was used to great effect by a judge when summing up against an airline was this:
If you drive on a motorway and you see a horse on the carriageway then this might be considered to be "unusual or unexpected" but by no means "extraordinary" - it is not unknown or unheard of for a horse to be on a motorway however unlikely. On the other hand if you saw an elephant on the motorway then that could be said to be "extraordinary".
Similarly, whilst a Captain being ill is unusual or unexpected, in no way can they claim it to be "extraordinary" as human beings do get ill. It is a forseeable problem and as such they should plan for such an occurrence.  Consequently, it is not "extraordinary" and I genuinely believe you will win your case. I did - 3 times now. Incidentally the same argument won cases when airlines have claimed "unusual weather" as "extraordinary". European court held that weather is, in the main, predictable and as such they should plan for it and not avoid obligation of compensation under the act.

Alan_Bowen

You cannot plan for a pilot to be taken ill 4000 miles away from the UK base of an airline and 21 hours delay in the circumstances seems entirely reasonable. I do not think there is a reasonable prospect of success in this case . If I were BA, this is one case where I would gladly defend any claim. No airline can be expected to have spare pilots at every airport they operate from, the home airports, Heathrow and Gatwick are a different matter altogether where entire crews are on standby on a daily basis

ArKay

Thanks for your comment but I think you are wrong. Spare pilots do not of course have to be brought from UK - many are on lay over nearby and can be offered overtime flights back if in safe period. This is routine. On second point and in my expereince, the airlines may offer a defence on paper but rarely turn up to court as it is a cost to them to hire an agent to run the case and possibly overnight hotel fees which ends up costing more than the fixed compensation. So in my expereince they rarely turn up and you automatically win by default. Even if they do turn up you lose the case, you only lose your very small fee - no costs are awarded against you in small claims court (money claim online). So just do it is still my advice.
Enough.

leylandsunaddict

ArKay said:

If you drive on a motorway and you see a horse on the carriageway then this might be considered to be "unusual or unexpected" but by no means "extraordinary" - it is not unknown or unheard of for a horse to be on a motorway however unlikely. On the other hand if you saw an elephant on the motorway then that could be said to be "extraordinary".

Under EU261 "extraordinary" means outside the airlines control. Pilot illness is outside the airlines control. It could be argued that there should be another pilot available, but in a foreign destination where they have no base this isn't feasible.  If a pilot is on layover nearby then he is on rest time, not time where he can be asked to do overtime.