Flight delay and cancellation compensation, Tui/Thomson ONLY

Probi

Probi said:

eskbanker said:

Not sure that the arrival of other flights in BRS at the time would necessarily be relevant, unless they were comparable aircraft/routes, e.g. a Ryanair 737 on a short haul flight will probably need less runway length than a long-haul 787 flight, for example.

Having diverted, it really then comes down to what could/should they have done better?  Crew arriving from an overnight transatlantic flight are unlikely to have enough hours left to return to Bristol after refuelling, so it would be a debate about how long it should take for the airline to arrange a full standby crew (which would be more onerous than that needed to fly an empty positioning leg).  There also won't be a fleet of coaches sitting there ready to go - that's not to say that four hours is reasonable though....

As with so many claims, it's not necessarily cut and dried one way or the other, so see what they come back with and take it from there!

Thanks very much, I'll wait and see what they say to begin with and then come back if I have any other questions!

Hi everyone,

I have now received a response from TUI and as expected the claim has been denied based on the diversion being due to adverse weather at Bristol. Does anybody know the best way I can query this? Would it be to ask for a further explanation as to why the delay was reasonable based on the circumstances? and is it just a case of replying to the email they have sent or do I need to use a different address?

Also they have recorded the delay as 3:30 in the email which is also incorrect, we were due to land at BRS at 07:00 and didn't arrive until 16:30, so I would at least like to query this to begin with.

I have also found a number of references similar to this on Your flight compensation rights in extraordinary circumstances - Which? which states:

A good way to judge if the weather is severe enough to be deemed an extraordinary circumstance is if other flights are taking off. If they are, you should challenge your airline and make a claim for compensation.

Could this work in my favour?

Thanks!

Westin

Probi said:

Probi said:

eskbanker said:

Not sure that the arrival of other flights in BRS at the time would necessarily be relevant, unless they were comparable aircraft/routes, e.g. a Ryanair 737 on a short haul flight will probably need less runway length than a long-haul 787 flight, for example.

Having diverted, it really then comes down to what could/should they have done better?  Crew arriving from an overnight transatlantic flight are unlikely to have enough hours left to return to Bristol after refuelling, so it would be a debate about how long it should take for the airline to arrange a full standby crew (which would be more onerous than that needed to fly an empty positioning leg).  There also won't be a fleet of coaches sitting there ready to go - that's not to say that four hours is reasonable though....

As with so many claims, it's not necessarily cut and dried one way or the other, so see what they come back with and take it from there!

Thanks very much, I'll wait and see what they say to begin with and then come back if I have any other questions!

Hi everyone,

I have now received a response from TUI and as expected the claim has been denied based on the diversion being due to adverse weather at Bristol. Does anybody know the best way I can query this? Would it be to ask for a further explanation as to why the delay was reasonable based on the circumstances? and is it just a case of replying to the email they have sent or do I need to use a different address?

Also they have recorded the delay as 3:30 in the email which is also incorrect, we were due to land at BRS at 07:00 and didn't arrive until 16:30, so I would at least like to query this to begin with.

I have also found a number of references similar to this on Your flight compensation rights in extraordinary circumstances - Which? which states:

A good way to judge if the weather is severe enough to be deemed an extraordinary circumstance is if other flights are taking off. If they are, you should challenge your airline and make a claim for compensation.

Could this work in my favour?

Thanks!

That comment from WHICH is rather daft IMHO.  That is a very broad sweeping statement and very misleading. Weather can change from one minute to the next. Visibility can reduce or improve minute by minute, wind gusts and rain change constantly.  Besides which different factors come into play for departing and landing aircraft. 

If you have ever watched jets landing (or a missed approach) on BigJet.tv, or even stood watching planes trying to land on a windy day at an airport, there are so many factors in play. One plane may land, the next may be hit by wind shear and need to abort the landing attempt.   

Airlines won't divert without good reason. Safety first.

Probi

Westin said:

Probi said:

Probi said:

eskbanker said:

Not sure that the arrival of other flights in BRS at the time would necessarily be relevant, unless they were comparable aircraft/routes, e.g. a Ryanair 737 on a short haul flight will probably need less runway length than a long-haul 787 flight, for example.

Having diverted, it really then comes down to what could/should they have done better?  Crew arriving from an overnight transatlantic flight are unlikely to have enough hours left to return to Bristol after refuelling, so it would be a debate about how long it should take for the airline to arrange a full standby crew (which would be more onerous than that needed to fly an empty positioning leg).  There also won't be a fleet of coaches sitting there ready to go - that's not to say that four hours is reasonable though....

As with so many claims, it's not necessarily cut and dried one way or the other, so see what they come back with and take it from there!

Thanks very much, I'll wait and see what they say to begin with and then come back if I have any other questions!

Hi everyone,

I have now received a response from TUI and as expected the claim has been denied based on the diversion being due to adverse weather at Bristol. Does anybody know the best way I can query this? Would it be to ask for a further explanation as to why the delay was reasonable based on the circumstances? and is it just a case of replying to the email they have sent or do I need to use a different address?

Also they have recorded the delay as 3:30 in the email which is also incorrect, we were due to land at BRS at 07:00 and didn't arrive until 16:30, so I would at least like to query this to begin with.

I have also found a number of references similar to this on Your flight compensation rights in extraordinary circumstances - Which? which states:

A good way to judge if the weather is severe enough to be deemed an extraordinary circumstance is if other flights are taking off. If they are, you should challenge your airline and make a claim for compensation.

Could this work in my favour?

Thanks!

That comment from WHICH is rather daft IMHO.  That is a very broad sweeping statement and very misleading. Weather can change from one minute to the next. Visibility can reduce or improve minute by minute, wind gusts and rain change constantly.  Besides which different factors come into play for departing and landing aircraft. 

If you have ever watched jets landing (or a missed approach) on BigJet.tv, or even stood watching planes trying to land on a windy day at an airport, there are so many factors in play. One plane may land, the next may be hit by wind shear and need to abort the landing attempt.   

Airlines won't divert without good reason. Safety first.

I agree although I have seen a similar statement regarding "adverse weather" elsewhere, it seems like it is very much more of a grey area on if compensation is due or not. Bristol is an interesting airport where low cloud / fog is quite common and can roll in / out quite quickly.

All other flights at Bristol on that morning departed / arrived successfully. Our aircraft made no attempt to hold or delay to see if the weather would clear, which is what would usually happen, we made a single approach and then diverted to Gatwick.

What I need to try and understand is if all reasonable measures were taken to reduce the length of our delay and I'm not sure of the best way to continue to request this information from TUI.

Thanks

Anon

Alan_Bowen said:

You need to read the terms of both policies and see which has the best cover for 'missed departure', we cannot read what you have, I suspect the Amex policy may have the best cover but that is an assumption, not a guarantee. 
It is not the time of departure that determines whether compensation is paid for flights but arriving more than 3 hours later than scheduled, and that does not appear to be the case. If one plane went tech and split the flight into two, and still got you there less than 3 hours late, I think TUI should be praised, many have suffered far worse!

Still waiting the outcome of the insurance claim but Nationwide was better than Amex Gold as Amex only referred to missed connections not missed original flight.

TUI could be praised for putting on the extra flight and still could have performed better (their communication on the ground was very poor to customers or indeed to the staff at the airport who were having to explain to customers despite them not being informed there had been a change!).

Anon

Anon said:

I am hoping someone can offer advice please.

We missed our flight due to a major accident which blocked the motorway for many hours. We had to pay to rebook new flights and for overnight accommodation at the airport. We paid using Amex Gold which has travel insurance and I also have travel insurance with my Nationwide Flex Plus. We also lost a day and one night's accommodation of the package holiday. Which of these two would be the best option for claiming the extra costs (flight and accommodation) please, and can you claim for a missed night of unused all inclusive hotel?

Our second issue (hence on the TUI thread) is we arrived at the airport the following day to find there was no record of us on the flight number showing on the booking confirmation (nor any other). After a phone call by the TUI staff member to some other department, it turns out the Dreamliner plane had been changed to a smaller one with that same flight number, and a second plane put on 15 minutes later for all the remaining passengers. We were then booked at the airport onto this second plane - which subsequently left over 2 hours late. 

Is there likely any compensation due for this flight due to not having places nor leaving on the original flight number? I appreciate the subsequent late take off was not 3 hours so would get rejected on flight delay (over 1500km), but is not having seats allocated on the original flight number (or any plane when we arrived at the airport) and leaving on a different flight number effectively some form of cancellation/denied boarding/re-route? It may be the scenario isn't covered but thought there was no harm in checking.

Finally, if claiming on the insurance (for missed flight) and with the airline, can both be claimed now or is there a particular order?

Thank you

Just reporting back (it can be annoying when people ask for advice but then don't report back on the outcome) - I submitted a denied boarding claim and it was quickly agreed by TUI and compensation paid (praise where it is due - this complaint process was very efficient).

I am not sure how they calculate the distance between airports though, as it doesn't seem to match what I was expecting? 

eskbanker

Anon said:
Just reporting back (it can be annoying when people ask for advice but then don't report back on the outcome) - I submitted a denied boarding claim and it was quickly agreed by TUI and compensation paid (praise where it is due - this complaint process was very efficient).

I am not sure how they calculate the distance between airports though, as it doesn't seem to match what I was expecting? 

Which airports, and how did their calculation differ from yours?  How much delay was involved?

Anon

eskbanker said:

Anon said:
Just reporting back (it can be annoying when people ask for advice but then don't report back on the outcome) - I submitted a denied boarding claim and it was quickly agreed by TUI and compensation paid (praise where it is due - this complaint process was very efficient).

I am not sure how they calculate the distance between airports though, as it doesn't seem to match what I was expecting? 

Which airports, and how did their calculation differ from yours?  How much delay was involved?

MAN to PMI - the rate they have used suggests it is 1500km, but I thought it was further than that? 

I am not complaining as it is in my favour (just over 2 hour delay, so a higher rate for a shorter delay), I was just wondering if there is a definitive site for the journey distance?

If it is classed as 1500km/2 hour delay I could submit an insurance claim for the delay.

Thank you

eskbanker

Anon said:

eskbanker said:

Anon said:
Just reporting back (it can be annoying when people ask for advice but then don't report back on the outcome) - I submitted a denied boarding claim and it was quickly agreed by TUI and compensation paid (praise where it is due - this complaint process was very efficient).

I am not sure how they calculate the distance between airports though, as it doesn't seem to match what I was expecting? 

Which airports, and how did their calculation differ from yours?  How much delay was involved?

MAN to PMI - the rate they have used suggests it is 1500km, but I thought it was further than that? 

I am not complaining as it is in my favour (just over 2 hour delay, so a higher rate for a shorter delay), I was just wondering if there is a definitive site for the journey distance?

If it is classed as 1500km/2 hour delay I could submit an insurance claim for the delay.

Thank you

I don't actually know where they source their distance data from (there are presumably detailed navigational data sources used within the industry), but there are various online calculators in the public domain, so the likes of https://www.airmilescalculator.com/distance/man-to-pmi/ gives the distance as 1581km.  1500km is the threshold to demarcate the distance bandings used for compensation, so it seems unlikely that they'd be using a different calculator that varied by 81km - were they asserting that the distance actually is exactly 1500km or are they perhaps just referring to the top or bottom of the banding?

A delay of less than three hours on that sector should pay out at 50% of £350, i.e. £175 - are you saying they paid out the full £350?

Anon

eskbanker said:

Anon said:

eskbanker said:

Anon said:
Just reporting back (it can be annoying when people ask for advice but then don't report back on the outcome) - I submitted a denied boarding claim and it was quickly agreed by TUI and compensation paid (praise where it is due - this complaint process was very efficient).

I am not sure how they calculate the distance between airports though, as it doesn't seem to match what I was expecting? 

Which airports, and how did their calculation differ from yours?  How much delay was involved?

MAN to PMI - the rate they have used suggests it is 1500km, but I thought it was further than that? 

I am not complaining as it is in my favour (just over 2 hour delay, so a higher rate for a shorter delay), I was just wondering if there is a definitive site for the journey distance?

If it is classed as 1500km/2 hour delay I could submit an insurance claim for the delay.

Thank you

I don't actually know where they source their distance data from (there are presumably detailed navigational data sources used within the industry), but there are various online calculators in the public domain, so the likes of https://www.airmilescalculator.com/distance/man-to-pmi/ gives the distance as 1581km.  1500km is the threshold to demarcate the distance bandings used for compensation, so it seems unlikely that they'd be using a different calculator that varied by 81km - were they asserting that the distance actually is exactly 1500km or are they perhaps just referring to the top or bottom of the banding?

A delay of less than three hours on that sector should pay out at 50% of £350, i.e. £175 - are you saying they paid out the full £350?

It didn't explain the calculation, just we were eligible to £220 per person Denied Boarding Compensation under CAA Regulations. I was pleasantly surprised at the amount.

FingersLily

Hi,

I flew to Mexico with TUI last year. The flight was delayed over 8 hours because of lightning damage to the plane.

TUI refused compensation so I went down the Aviation ADR route. I’ve finally had a decision from them which was, obviously, a refusal.

There are a number of reasons why I think my claim is valid & I want to pursue this via the small claims court but I have no experience of this. Does anyone with greater knowledge think it’s worth it?

Firstly, we were actually on the plane & taxiing when the pilot announced that there may be an issue. After sitting on the plane for half an hour we were told we’d have to get off while they investigated. There were no engineers on site so they had to send photos by WhatsApp (the pilot told us this!)

Eventually (some hours later), they decided they needed to get a replacement plane. It had to come from Manchester but, by the time it arrived, the crew had reached their time limit so I’d to be replaced.

In their response to my claim, TUI stated they noticed the damage when the plane arrived from its previous flight. This is obviously untrue - they wouldn’t board the passengers if this was the case. They said that the plane had to be taken out of service but their own evidence they supplied stated it could still fly with speed tape. They also said the replacement plane came from Manchester with full crew but their evidence shows there were only 2 people on board.

TUI didn’t respond to my complaint within the 28 days. Aviation ADR allowed them a further 14 days which is allowable within their scheme rules. They still didn’t respond & requested a further 7 days. This is NOT in the scheme rules but ADR allowed it. When I complained they said they can sometimes allow it. When I asked where that is stated in their rules, they ignored me.

TUI STILL didn’t reply in the extra 7 days. It took them a further 9 days to respond but Aviation ADR still accepted their response.

Sorry for the long post but I really need help with this.

Thank you for reading!