Flight delay and cancellation compensation, Tui/Thomson ONLY

DTDfanBoy

Centipede100 wrote: »

You have omitted the 2 most important judgments in your list of potential inclusions: Wallentin-Hermann and Sturgeon.

They are critical to success in your bundle. Omit them and you will almost certainly lose! Unless you were denied boarding I would omit Finnair v Lassooy as I guess you were delayed not IDB'd.

Finnair V Lassooy should most definitely be included in any instance where the airline is denying liability due to an earlier EC, you won't find a better judgment to use if somehow the airline manage to convince the Judge that EC actually existed.


This is the third question which was put forward to the ECJ :


3. Is [Regulation No 261/2004] to be interpreted as meaning that an air carrier may be exempted from liability under Article 5(3) in extraordinary circumstances not only with respect to a flight which it cancelled, but also with respect to passengers on later flights, on the ground that by its actions it attempts to spread the negative effects of the extraordinary circumstances it encounters in its operations, such as a strike, among a wider class of passengers than the cancelled flight’s passengers by rescheduling its later flights so that no passenger’s journey was unreasonably delayed?

In other words, may an air carrier rely on extraordinary circumstances also with respect to a passenger on a later flight whose journey was not directly affected by that factor? Does it make a significant difference whether the passenger’s situation and right to compensation are assessed in accordance with Article 4 of the regulation, which concerns denied boarding, or with Article 5, which relates to flight cancellation?’

Vauban

I'm afraid I disagree with DTDfanboy on this. The circumstances of the Finnair judgement are different in a number of respects from a more conventional "knock-on" delay.

In particular the airline were found against because they rescheduled their services following on from the original delay, so that some passengers - whose flight had no connection to the one originally delayed - were discriminated against when others were put on the flight and not them. It was the arbitrary nature of the denied boarding just as much as the tenuous link to the original delay that caused the airline to lose.

Most delays, even knock-ons, are unlikely to replicate these factors, and if you deviate from your core points (which have to be Wallentin/Sturgeon) you'll be punished by more knowledgeable lawyers. In my humble view.

JPears

Vauban wrote: »

I'm afraid I disagree with DTDfanboy on this. The circumstances of the Finnair judgement are different in a number of respects from a more conventional "knock-on" delay.

In particular the airline were found against because they rescheduled their services following on from the original delay, so that some passengers - whose flight had no connection to the one originally delayed - were discriminated against when others were put on the flight and not them. It was the arbitrary nature of the denied boarding just as much as the tenuous link to the original delay that caused the airline to lose.

Most delays, even knock-ons, are unlikely to replicate these factors, and if you deviate from your core points (which have to be Wallentin/Sturgeon) you'll be punished by more knowledgeable lawyers. In my humble view.

I would agree with Prof Vauban, his Lordiness. The particulars in Finnair are quite unsual and specific to the case, indeed some airlines have tried to use it in their defence. Unless th claimant's circumstances are very similar, I would be tempted to leave Finnair alone.

ftd83

Cubatony2002 wrote: »

Just finished my court bundle ready to send to Thomson and the court. Hugely satisfying feeling, that can only be bettered by depositing their cheque should I win.

Huge thanks to Vauban, ftd83 and legal magpie for your help.

The bundles are due to be served by Friday. How late in the week do you reckon I will have to wait for their bundle?

Cuba T

Well done Cuba Tony.

Remember to send your bundle at the lats moment to give them less time to come up with any more bluff. I sent mine the day before with next day delivery. Cost me £4 but some compensation made up for that:T. Thomson will do likewise so you wont get anything until Friday for sure.

Good luck with your case. I am waiting for the news of another payout!

tonxy22

ftd83 wrote: »

Well done Cuba Tony.

Remember to send your bundle at the lats moment to give them less time to come up with any more bluff. I sent mine the day before with next day delivery. Cost me £4 but some compensation made up for that:T. Thomson will do likewise so you wont get anything until Friday for sure.

Good luck with your case. I am waiting for the news of another payout!

I posted my bundle today - 2 weeks before its due as requested... did think I won't see theirs until the last minute. Shouldn't the deadline be a little bit more respected??

JPears

tonxy22 wrote: »

I posted my bundle today - 2 weeks before its due as requested... did think I won't see theirs until the last minute. Shouldn't the deadline be a little bit more respected??

We can see from this forum that airlines and respect for the law (reg 261/2004) have difficulty appearing in the same sentence....

legal_magpie

There is never any point in submitting the documents before the due date. Thomson will probably comply in time and you should go through their documents with a fine toothcomb

xsally83x

Once you have paid the £60 court fee i didnt realize you have to pay another £80 to the court closer to the time. I didnt include this in my initial claim so is there a way i can alter the amount i entered? Also if i have to go to court i will have to take a day off work and with no holiday left it will be unpaid. Is there anyway i can claim for this to? Or should i of thought about all this before i entered my claim

Vauban

xsally83x wrote: »

Once you have paid the £60 court fee i didnt realize you have to pay another £80 to the court closer to the time. I didnt include this in my initial claim so is there a way i can alter the amount i entered? Also if i have to go to court i will have to take a day off work and with no holiday left it will be unpaid. Is there anyway i can claim for this to? Or should i of thought about all this before i entered my claim

The court fees are paid by the other side if you win.

You can claim I believe £90 from the other side for your court attendance, again assuming you win. Got to remember to ask the judge for it though (at the end).

RobRob888

Vauban wrote: »

I'm afraid I disagree with DTDfanboy on this. The circumstances of the Finnair judgement are different in a number of respects from a more conventional "knock-on" delay.

In particular the airline were found against because they rescheduled their services following on from the original delay, so that some passengers - whose flight had no connection to the one originally delayed - were discriminated against when others were put on the flight and not them. It was the arbitrary nature of the denied boarding just as much as the tenuous link to the original delay that caused the airline to lose.

Most delays, even knock-ons, are unlikely to replicate these factors, and if you deviate from your core points (which have to be Wallentin/Sturgeon) you'll be punished by more knowledgeable lawyers. In my humble view.

I read in an earlier post that the Finnair case was the one to use when problems were found in a previous flight. Having looked at it I agree it may be different from my claim.

Is there something to use instead?
I was in Egypt the outgoing flight had a technical fault and didn't leave Gatwick until the next day, 20 hours delayed.