Flight delay and cancellation compensation, Tui/Thomson ONLY

bettys73

Having telephoned Thomsons on numerous occasions I have finally received a reply to my claim (almost 6 months since my original call).

My flight was from Dabolim Airport in Goa to East Midlands - delayed 12hrs+

Thomsons have, predictably, refused the claim due to the following:

"The delay was due to a previous scheduled flight being unable to operate out of Bombay due to Airport Authorities, as they believed we did not have the correct overfly documents. We can confirm we did have the correct documents and this was an error on the part of Bombay AA.

This then caused a knock on effect to your flight. As this was something that could not have been foreseen or prevented it is classed as extraordinary circumstances".

Having searched the forum I haven't come across this excuse before - does anyone think this is a valid argument?

Your help would be appreciated. Many thanks

Vauban

bettys73 wrote: »

Having telephoned Thomsons on numerous occasions I have finally received a reply to my claim (almost 6 months since my original call).

My flight was from Dabolim Airport in Goa to East Midlands - delayed 12hrs+

Thomsons have, predictably, refused the claim due to the following:

"A previous scheduled flight being due to operate out of Bombay due to Airport Authorities as they believed we did not have the correct overfly documents. We can confirm we did have the correct documents and this was an error on the part of Bombay AA.

This then caused a knock on effect to your flight. As this was something that could not have been foreseen or prevented it is classed as extraordinary circumstances".

Having searched the forum I haven't come across this excuse before - do anyone think this is a valid argument?

Your help would be appreciated. Many thanks

If this had been your flight - and assuming no error on the part of the airline - I think an overfly refusal would be extraordinary circumstances (ie out of the airline's control). But as it was a previous flight that was affected - not yours - the question is how much time did the airline have to make alternative arrangements to get you home on time? I suspect the original incident was some time before your own flight and - as such - the airline may find it difficult to demonstrate that it took all reasonable measures to minimise the delay to you.

I would write them a Notice Before Action letter advising that, unless they are able to give you the full details of the original incident, you will commence legal action within 14 days.

Camaro3

Camaro3 wrote: »

"The regulations are clear that ECs can only apply to a "particular aircraft on a particular day"
Just noticed this post from Vauban. Our flight was supposed to be 7:00pm from Alicante. The aircraft had an engine fault at East Midlands at 6:00am. Could Thomson use EC's in our case as it's on the same day?

Advice anyone?

bettys73

I have now checked out the "particular aircraft on a particular day" ruling.

The case Is Finnair oyj v timy lassooy. The ruling states:

" In addition, it is apparent from recital 15 in the preamble to Regulation No261/2004that ‘extraordinary circumstances’ may relate only to ‘a particular aircraft on a particular day’, which cannot apply to a passenger denied boarding because of the rescheduling of flights as a result of extraordinary circumstances affecting an earlier flight".

This was a case re a passenger being denied boarding - the ruling would also apply to flight delays as Finnair's refusal was mounted on the 'extraordinary circumstances' excuse.

Having now spoken to Thomson they refuse to give any further information on the delay - or details of the flight which caused the knock on effect.

Looks like its court action.

Thanks for your help everyone.

laticsforlife

Can someone please point me to the para in Wallentin that talks about knock-on effects not being an excuse - I have read it thrice now and am still unclear.

Is it not said in so many word at paras 40 and 41 where it talks about using all its resources?

I much prefer it as a specific question in Finnair where it is pretty clear.

Vauban

Betty/Latics:

The "particular aircraft" formulation is repeated in Finnair but is actually from the original Regulation itself. Preliminary para 15:

15. Extraordinary circumstances should be deemed to exist
where the impact of an air traffic management decision
in relation to a particular aircraft on a particular day
gives rise to a long delay, an overnight delay, or the
cancellation of one or more flights by that aircraft, even
though all reasonable measures had been taken by the
air carrier concerned to avoid the delays or cancellations.

There is nothing in Wallentin about "knock-ons" to my knowledge. The ruling is instead about technical defects as extraordinary circumstances and what constitutes "all reasonable measures".

laticsforlife

Now you see I really dislike that pre-amble in para 15 because it suggests to me that EC's might exist with overnight delays and one or more flights, which hardly excludes knock-on effects.

Finnair however couldn't be clearer.

Bahamas68

Myself and two children fly from London over four thousand miles with British Airways. Our flight was delayed by four hours and we arrived at our destination about three hours late. However, I knew the flight was going to be late so left for the airport later than I was going to. My plans had to completely change getting is to the airport as what had been put in place was no longer an option. Can I still claim compensation ? I have thrown away all my boarding passes and flight itinery but have receipts and loyalty card to show we were on the flight manifest but I had never heard of this compensation before

laticsforlife

Centipede100 wrote: »

The preamble is not relevant unless your flight was delayed as a result of an air traffic decision to your aircraft in particular

Oh that's OK then, now I see.

Centipede100 wrote: »

Finnair couldn't be clearer that it applies to a case of denied boarding...

Is it not that the point of the cases to align denied boarding with delayed boarding, so we could use them by analogy.

Ahhh the more I read the more confused I become - now I remember what it was I disliked about Case law (no I'm not a lawyer but had to study some Case law years back) - I'd much rather be studying Coleslaw!

laticsforlife

Bahamas68 wrote: »

Myself and two children fly from London over four thousand miles with British Airways. Our flight was delayed by four hours and we arrived at our destination about three hours late. However, I knew the flight was going to be late so left for the airport later than I was going to. My plans had to completely change getting is to the airport as what had been put in place was no longer an option. Can I still claim compensation ? I have thrown away all my boarding passes and flight itinery but have receipts and loyalty card to show we were on the flight manifest but I had never heard of this compensation before

err, THOMSON forum, not BA.:eek:, but you first need to remember if it was more than 3 hours or not.