Flight delay and cancellation compensation, Thomas Cook ONLY

johndoe70

Greetings fellow warriors,
I posted on this forum last year in regards to my delay and am now at the point of beginning mcol proceedings but wanted to check a couple of things with the geniuses on here first if you don't mind!
To recap, my flight was delayed for 6 and a half hours in june 2011.It was a palma majorca to manchester flight.the reason for the delay was due to strike action in greece.the same aircraft operating my flight was being used earlier on a route between greece and the uk,therefore culminating in a 'knock on' effect delay to my flight.The strike action was announced in the media at least 2 days prior to my flight.No other air carrier departing palma airport suffered a delay due to this reason..
Myquestions are these:
Given there is already case law whereby a passenger successfully awarded compensation for a knock on effect (tc claimed ec's due to bad weather on an earlier flight,on a different route and at a.different airport than that of the passenger delayed) would my claim in your opinion,have equal validity given that the ECJ ruling applied in that case (particular aircraft on a particular day) would or should be applied in my flight delays case?

I do not have my original flight ref numbers or boarding cards but have had two responses to my claim letter and NBA letter from tc rejecting my claim due to strike action,extraordinary circs.my question is this:would I need to get these ref nnumbers before filing mcol or is the fact my rejection emails acknowledge me as being on the flight proof enough for court purposes?

Last question: how much are mcol fees from start to finish please?

Thanks for any views and responses guys
JD70

Vauban

My quick thoughts, in haste.

johndoe70 wrote: »

To recap, my flight was delayed for 6 and a half hours in june 2011.It was a palma majorca to manchester flight.

Then you will want to wait for the Dawson judgment, in case the Court of Appeal rules it's a limitation of two years not six.

johndoe70 wrote: »

Given there is already case law whereby a passenger successfully awarded compensation for a knock on effect (tc claimed ec's due to bad weather on an earlier flight,on a different route and at a.different airport than that of the passenger delayed) would my claim in your opinion,have equal validity given that the ECJ ruling applied in that case (particular aircraft on a particular day) would or should be applied in my flight delays case?

I'm not sure what "case law" you are referring to? I'm aware of no such legal precedent, I'm afraid. Indeed, this was one of the issues before the Court of Appeal this afternoon. The phrase "particular flight on a particular day" is used in the context of air traffic management decisions only. The closest binding judgment is the Finnair Lassoy one, but that is about denied boarding.

johndoe70 wrote: »

I do not have my original flight ref numbers or boarding cards but have had two responses to my claim letter and NBA letter from tc rejecting my claim due to strike action,extraordinary circs.my question is this:would I need to get these ref nnumbers before filing mcol or is the fact my rejection emails acknowledge me as being on the flight proof enough for court purposes?

You need to show the court that on the balance of probabilities you were a passenger. Only you can judge whether the documents you cite do that sufficiently. (I suspect not). This doesn't stop you from issuing a claim, though.

johndoe70 wrote: »

Last question: how much are mcol fees from start to finish please?

Depends on the cost of the claim you are making. Google it to find the latest.

johndoe70

Thanks for reply vauban, the judgement i m refering to is jager vs easyjet.
The claimant was flying from gatwick to neice in summer 2012,her fliht was delayed by over 3 hours due to a knock on effect an earlier flight suffered.The claiment argued in court that the regs clearly state that bad weather is only a extraordinary circumstance where it affects the operation of the flight concerned.
As the bad weather occured earlier in the day in milan and did not affect any part of the claiments flight,the judge held that it was not extraordinary
I'm aware dawson vs thomson appeal is being heard this month,however would you expect,as I do that the appeal will fail? As far as I know EC261/2004 is seperate to ruling laid down in the montreal convention.Or rather the limitations act is the rule in force?

Vauban

johndoe70 wrote: »

Thanks for reply vauban, the judgement i m refering to is jager vs easyjet.
The claimant was flying from gatwick to neice in summer 2012,her fliht was delayed by over 3 hours due to a knock on effect an earlier flight suffered.The claiment argued in court that the regs clearly state that bad weather is only a extraordinary circumstance where it affects the operation of the flight concerned.
As the bad weather occured earlier in the day in milan and did not affect any part of the claiments flight,the judge held that it was not extraordinary
I'm aware dawson vs thomson appeal is being heard this month,however would you expect,as I do that the appeal will fail? As far as I know EC261/2004 is seperate to ruling laid down in the montreal convention.Or rather the limitations act is the rule in force?

Jäger v easyJet is a judgement by a Deputy District Judge, and thus sets no precedent or case law.

I used to think Dawson must be upheld - that it was a slamdunk, even - but I caught the last hour in the Court of Appeal last week and am now much less confident!

(I am far more positive about Huzar, incidentally, which was very interesting today.)

johndoe70

Also,as you say its true that 'particular flight on a particular day' relates to air traffic management and that is exactly what delayed my flight.Air traffic control in greece staged work stoppages on the day of my flight and the next day also (28&29th june 2011).The stoppages were in effect between 8am and 12pm noon and then 6pm till 10pm on both days.
Would you agree that as the strike was in greece and did not affect my depature airport,my arrival airport or the airspace of that route ,then extraordinary circs does not apply to my flight simply because tc failed to organise its resources in good time and therefore did not take all reasonable measures to avoid the delay? Especially given that tc had at least 48hrs advance notice of the greek atc work stoppages.you would have thought greek flights would be unavoidably delayed right? But I would have thought tc would have organised another aircraft from its fleet to operate my flight given the notice they had!
It sounds a sthough I'm trying to justify my own arguement lol but actually just trying to garner opinion. What do you think vauban?

johndoe70

That's worrying news regarding the dawson appeal vauban!!
Incidently if thomson win the appeal do you think that decision could open up a proverbial can of worms? Would it possibly see airlines who have paid compensation claims to passengers whose claims fell outside of that 2year limit try to reclaim it through the courts? Or would it just relate to future claims?

David_e

johndoe70 wrote: »

Would it possibly see airlines who have paid compensation claims to passengers whose claims fell outside of that 2year limit try to reclaim it through the courts?

Like to see them try!!

razorsedge

johndoe70 wrote: »

I do not have my original flight ref numbers or boarding cards but have had two responses to my claim letter and NBA letter from tc rejecting my claim due to strike action,extraordinary circs.my question is this:would I need to get these ref nnumbers before filing mcol or is the fact my rejection emails acknowledge me as being on the flight proof enough for court purposes?

Last question: how much are mcol fees from start to finish please?

Thanks for any views and responses guys
JD70

My thoughts about 'proof' you were on the flight
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/65514159#Comment_65514159

MCOL Fees will vary depending on the total value of your claim.
Initial fee payable:
https://www.gov.uk/make-court-claim-for-money/court-fees
More fees details in this leaflet:
http://hmctsformfinder.justice.gov.uk/courtfinder/forms/ex050-eng.pdf

Saversall

I was in dispute with Thomas Cook over the arrival delay. They maintained that the delay was 3hrs and 52minutes. I claimed that it was over 4hrs. After much wrangling they finally accepted my claim and I have received over £1,000 in compensation. I asked the question: " what was the expected arrival time and what was the actual arrival time?". They didn't answer my question but after 2 weeks they responded saying that their information was incorrect and that I was entitled to receive the full compensation.
Thank you MSE for all the help. It's worth persevering, don't give up at the first hurdle.

1611pl

Hi everyone.
Just wanted to update re my TC compensation which I began in Nov 2012 relating to a flight in 2009. I have recently been awarded my compensation -£1033 - however it has been a long and sometimes exacerbating journey.
Firstly I would advise that prior to any contact with TC you do a LOTof homework (research info on the flight concerned; search, print & read and understand contents of Regulation 261/2004; attach or refer to anything which will support your claim). It also gives you more confidence in drafting or responding to correspondence. Having the detailed knowledge of Regulation 261/2004 also assisted me to refuse the first offer of compensation from TC, vouchers!
Secondly, I involved the CAA, around May 2013 (sent copies of all correspondence to them and asked them to investigate).
We all will have differing reasons for our claims (my situation was we watched our plane depart the gate - we were at gate awaiting boarding our early morning flight - and fly off. I approached non TC staff, and found out our plane was being used for other TC passengers in Canada!! Extraordinary circumstances?? We then endured a 6 hour bus journey to alternative UK airport and were bundled on a flight later that night).
Just wanted to end by saying I'm not legally qualified in any way however my commiment to research and understanding the ruling I believe helped me.
Good luck to others.