Flight delay and cancellation compensation, Thomas Cook ONLY

Vauban

allybee13 wrote: »

From post #1443 - can anyone confirm if this is the case?

Not sure really what you're asking. ABTA have a guideline for their members to respond to queries: the airlines aren't meeting it (though I'm not sure, on a technical point, whether the airlines are members of ABTA - I don't think they are).

You should give Thomas Cook as much time to resolve this as you think is reasonable. Many people have waited months. I think eight weeks is ample.

Can I check one point though: please confirm you are in touch with Thomas Cook the airline, not Thomas Cook the travel agent. The latter has no legal responsibility to you - you can't take them to court for a 261/04 claim.

Hulmie

I have requested information from Thomas Cook regarding what caused the technical fault which led to our flight being diverted, times the fault occurred and was fixed, logs proving that the piece of equipment that was at fault had received regular maintenance and checks prior to the flight departing and historically.

Thomas Cook have replied saying they have the documentation to prove the fault would be classed as extrodinary circumstances in a court of law and that they will not provide this information as it is private and sensitive.

However am i right in thinking i have a right to this information as it is in relation to a flight i was on?

Hulmie

So basically your saying to give NBA and then start a claim.

And also mention within that claim that i would like to claim damages for TC not providing the information required as set out in the CPR pre-action protocols?

becbec1982

I was hoping I might be able to get some advice as to when to take my case to court please?

As per my previous post, I have taken the process with TC as far as possible, having issued NBA and still they cite EC. I contacted the CAA 3 weeks ago but have heard nothing more. Should I wait longer or start court proceedings?

I also read that the NBA needs to be sent by post rather than by email - so should I resend this by post to ensure I have done everything correctly, then when that gets rejected again, start court process?

Many thanks

romanby1

Centipede100 wrote: »

Some may say not, but I would argue that if the airline wants to avoid the accusation that they forced you to start a legal claim as the only way to obtain such proof then I think you would be in order to demand costs in any subsquent legal claim.

This would be unreasonable IMO and by stating that this is the only way they will release such information, you need to make it clear in any legal claim what the airline has done and that you will seek costs.

Parties contemplating legal action need to demonstrate that they
took heed of the CPR pre-action protocols and one of these is that the parties sought to settle the agreement before any legal action was contemplated. If the airline will only divulge such details once a legal claim has been started then this would seem to fly in the face of those protocols.

The correct form of words we were advised to put in our NBA to Thomsons was:-

We draw your attention to section II (4) of the Practice Direction, which give the courts the power to impose sanctions on the parties if they fail to comply with the direction including failings to respond to this letter before claim. I look forward to hearing from you within the next 14 days, should we not receive a response to our letter with in this time frame then we anticipate that court action will be commenced with no further reference to you.

Hulmie

Thomas Cook have responded to the letter by saying they wont provide the information to me that i requested.

I am going to contact a company that deals with Travel Delay claims and let them sort it as i dont feel confident enough to put a case together.

Vauban

Hulmie wrote: »

Thomas Cook have responded to the letter by saying they wont provide the information to me that i requested.

I am going to contact a company that deals with Travel Delay claims and let them sort it as i dont feel confident enough to put a case together.

Good for you - 70% of something is definitely better than 100% of nothing, if you're not confident or too busy to see this through (I admit - writing my own "particulars of claim" last night, it's quite an effort!).

Good luck - and let us know who you go with, and whether they get you want you want.

jj5663

Flight delay from Tenerife to Bristol 28/12/12 - has anyone claimed for this delay please? I have tried to make a claim for 4.5hr delay but not getting very far

pete146

Hi

Please see below, the lengthy chain of emails between myself and Thomas Cook.

Should I even chase this any more, or has the time come for me to complain to the CAA?

I've highlighted the emails from TC in blue

Thanks in advance for any advice
Pete



Thomas Cook Airlines

Dear Sir or Madam,

Re: Compensation claim for delayed flight
Flight reference: MAN/SNU TCX812

I am writing regarding flight [TXC812] on [20/05/12] from Manchester to Santa Clara, Cuba with the scheduled departure time of 10.55. This flight arrived 6.5 hours late at Santa Clara.

The judgment of the Court of Justice of the European Union in Tui & others v CAA confirmed the applicability of compensation for delay as set out in the Sturgeon case. As such, I am seeking compensation under EC Regulation 261/2004 for this delayed flight.

The passengers in the party were:
Mr****
Mrs***

My scheduled flight length was 7210 kilometres, therefore I am seeking €600 per delayed passenger in my party. The total is €1,200 for all passengers.

During the delay the passengers in my party were provided with a voucher for under £7 for refreshments. This was insufficient for the length of the delay, and the passengers in my party spent £18 in addition to this voucher on refreshments. Please refund £18.

The total compensation sought is:
€1,200
£18

I look forward to a full response to this letter within 14 days. If I do not receive a satisfactory response I intend to pursue my complaint further, which could mean taking it to court.

Yours faithfully,

---

Fraya Holmes, Jan 02 16:16 (GMT):
Reference: 42914553/T519549J

02 January 2013

Dear Mr

Firstly, I would like to thank you for taking the time to write to us about your recent travel arrangements

Having read the content of your letter, I can see that aspects of the holiday have given cause for concern. I am sorry that this is the case and would assure you that as a business, we utilise feedback to ensure that our products are improved and enhanced to reflect the needs of our customers.


We do advise all guests to view a brochure prior to their departure. This is because it contains valuable information for guests as well as containing the booking conditions, which form part of the contract between us. Our booking conditions state that a letter should be sent to our Customer Relations Department within 28 days of return from holiday. Failing to complain within 28 days of return may reduce or extinguish any rights the guest has to make a claim from us and ultimately may mean that we are unable to investigate your concerns.


In light of the above and due to the time that has elapsed since your return and writing to us, I regret to advise that we are unable to investigate the comments.

Nevertheless, the information that has been supplied will be shared with our colleagues overseas and our Quality Assurance department, so that we can work with our suppliers to identify any immediate solutions

In closing I would like to thank you for taking the time to bring this matter to our attention and regret any impact this may have had upon your holiday enjoyment

Yours sincerely
Fraya Holmes

Customer Relations Team

---

Jan 02 16:39 (GMT):


Thank you for your swift reply

Unfortunately, as referenced in my letter, the Court of Justice of the European Union has recently confirmed that in cases such as mine, the passenger is entitled to compensation.

It is unfortunate that your brochure does not reflect this, but I shall choose to follow the information provided by the courts rather than the information in your brochure.


The court of justice has also made clear that the passenger has a right to claim compensation (at the fixed levels detailed in my email attachment) up to 5 years after the flight in question. There is no legal requirement for me to contact you within 28 days

May I please ask that your legal team, or somebody in a position of authority look at my complaint and respond to me within the next 14 days. If this matter is not resolved in accordance with my initial email, I shall not hesitate to contact the Civil Aviation Authority. If necessary I shall also commence court proceedings against Thomas Cook

If you are not aware of the court ruling that I have made reference to, please review the following internet page before responding to me again:
 ********

Thanks again for your time, I look forward to hearing from you shortly

---

03 January 2013

I am writing in response to your further correspondence regarding your recent travel arrangements with Thomas Cook.


It is with regret that I note your flight with us was delayed. Whilst delays are an unfortunate part of air travel, I would like to assure you that a lot of work goes on behind the scenes to ensure that any disruption to our passengers is kept to an absolute minimum.


When a delay is initially identified, it is not always immediately apparent as to when a revised take off time can be secured. A number of factors have to be considered, which can vary dependent on the reason for the delay, and quite often we are reliant on outside influences, such as Airport Authorities or Air Traffic Control. Throughout, however, as soon as confirmed information is available, this is passed onto our customers as quickly as possible through our handling agents at the airport.


Although delays do occur on occasion, they can arise for a number of different reasons, and having carried out a full investigation the specific circumstances surrounding the delay to your own flight were of a technical nature, which were extraordinary, despite Thomas Cook taking all reasonable precautions necessary to prevent the situation. All aircraft can experience technical problems that are totally unforeseen, despite all reasonable attempts to ensure they are maintained to a good standard, in line with CAA regulations. These situations can be compared to the maintenance of your own car, which can break down at any time without prior warning, regardless of its service history, and would be considered completely beyond the owners control.


I can see that customers were provided with welfare during the delay, in line with our obligations under EU Regulation 261/2004. As the events were defined as “extraordinary” no payment of compensation is considered appropriate in this case.


Please be assured that on-time performance is a key measure for us as a business, and we constantly review our operations to ensure we deliver the best results, and service. I would like to offer our apologies for any inconvenience you were caused on this occasion and I hope that despite this, your stay was found to be an enjoyable one.


Yours sincerely
Fraya Holmes

Customer Relations Team

---

Date: 3 January 2013 16:57:31 GMT
> To:
Reference: 42914553/T519549J


Thank you again for your prompt reply.

I do however dispute what you are telling me. According to the CAA, the following circumstances constitute 'Extraordinary':

Bad Weather

Industrial Action

Political unrest

Security issues
Air Traffic Management issues


Extraordinary relates to anything which is out of the airline's hands, and cannot be influenced by the airline. Technical problems are not included in the list of 'Extraordinary Circumstances' as they are controlled by the airline.

I have now been told that I do not have grounds for compensation for 2 entirely separate reasons:


1) I did not claim within 28 days

2) The circumstances are extraordinary

Neither of these reasons legally prevent me from making a claim for compensation.

The first is purely a Thomas Cook policy decision, the second appears to be an attempt to mislead me with industry jargon. I do not expect to be given a third incorrect reason.

As this is a ruling by the European Court of Justice, I expect you and your company to abide by the ruling, and offer me the compensation that I am rightly entitled to. I am astounded that instead, you provide reasons to avoid your responsibilities.


Once again, I look forward to your reply - hopefully this time you will take responsibility and offer me what I am rightfully entitled to. If this matter is not resolved within the next 14 days, you will leave me with no option that to complain the the CAA and to look at commencing court proceedings.


Thank you once again

---

Jan 12 08:54
Hi
I note that as yet, I have not received a response from you regarding my most recent email (please see below).
I look forward to a reply.
Thanks

---

Dawn Hulme, Jan 16 13:01 (GMT):
Dear

I write to acknowledge receipt of your further communication.
I am sorry that you remain unhappy with the way your complaint has been dealt with initially and the further comments you have made will certainly be considered.

Following a review of your entire case, you will be contacted again with a view to bringing this matter to a satisfactory conclusion for all concerned.

Again, we will endeavour to respond to you as quickly as possible. In the meantime, I apologise for any delay in our further reply and should you wish to contact us again please do so via *****

Yours sincerely
Dawn
Customer Relations Executive

---

Feb 04 16:56 (GMT):
Reference: 42914553/T519549J



Hi


I just wondered how your investigations into my claim are progressing. It seems like some time since you told me that you were fully reviewing my case so that things could be fully resolved.


Thanks


---

Fraya Holmes, Feb 06 14:41 (GMT):

Dear

Thank you for your recent communication.

As a member of ABTA, we endeavour to respond to our customers concerns within 28 days of receipt. We use this time to investigate the comments raised and to try and ensure the matter does not recur.

Please rest assured that a member of our team will contact you once our investigations have been completed.


Thank you for contacting Thomas Cook Customer Relations


Yours sincerely
Fraya
Customer Relations Executive

---

Hi
You responded to my email by telling me that you require 28 days to investigate and respond.

As my initial email was sent to you on 28/12/12, I think that you have now had more than sufficient time.

Could you please settle this matter within the next 7 days, or I will be forced to pursue this via other channels.

Thanks

---

Fraya Holmes, Feb 13 15:24 (GMT):

Thank you for your recent communication.

We would like to apologise for the delay in responding to you, and assure you that your concerns have been taken seriously.

Due to the nature of your comments, we are investigating the matter with the relevant departments.

Rest assured that a member of our department will be in contact with you shortly.

Thank you for contacting Customer Relations.

Yours sincerely
Fraya
Customer Relations Executive

---

Hi

I am sorry but I do not accept that answer. You have had since December to investigate, yet according to your earlier emails you already know the reasons for the delay.

It does not take this long to investigate. You are either going to compensate me as I am entitled, or you are not and I shall take legal advice.

I will not accept any further delaying tactics without sending my entire record of emails to the media while pursuing this matter through the legal system if I do not receive a full response to bring this matter to a conclusion by the end of the week.

Thanks you

---

Fraya Holmes, Feb 14 09:37 (GMT):

Dear

Thank you for your email.

I am sorry that you are unhappy with our response times, however we must be fair to our customers and respond to complaints in date order.

As your case was re-opened on 16th January and we are currently working on responses to files received in December, we ask that you bear with us a little longer for our reply.


Kind regards

Fraya

---

Hi

Another month has gone by, and this is still not resolved. I suspect that since this ruling, you have been inundated with similar claims, and are waiting for your head office to formulate a process - either that or you're waiting to see how the industry deals with this.

Personally I feel that 3 months since my initial email to you is a ridiculous timescale.

I now do not care whether I am top of your work queue - you should never have closed down my claim in the first place after simply trying to 'fob me off' with untruths!

You now have 7 days to respond, or I shall publish our entire thread of mails on the internet, Twitter, Facebook, consumer groups, and forums. I will send it to every single news publication that I can find, and I shall complain to every body involved in your regulation.

None of this needs to happen - you just have to treat me fairly, resolve my claim without any further delay tactics, and I shall go away!

---

28 March 2013
Hi

I have still not received any response to this email, as promised by your auto reply.

Could you please advise as a matter of urgency, on the state of my claim? Please review the full case before responding.

I believe that 3 months is sufficient time for you to resolve this!

Thanks

---

28 March 2013
Your request has been received, and is being reviewed by our Customer Relations Team.

Vauban

pete146 wrote: »

Hi

Please see below, the lengthy chain of emails between myself and Thomas Cook.

Should I even chase this any more, or has the time come for me to complain to the CAA?

I've highlighted the emails from TC in blue

Thanks in advance for any advice
Pete



Thomas Cook Airlines

Dear Sir or Madam,

Re: Compensation claim for delayed flight
Flight reference: MAN/SNU TCX812

I am writing regarding flight [TXC812] on [20/05/12] from Manchester to Santa Clara, Cuba with the scheduled departure time of 10.55. This flight arrived 6.5 hours late at Santa Clara.

The judgment of the Court of Justice of the European Union in Tui & others v CAA confirmed the applicability of compensation for delay as set out in the Sturgeon case. As such, I am seeking compensation under EC Regulation 261/2004 for this delayed flight.

The passengers in the party were:
Mr****
Mrs***

My scheduled flight length was 7210 kilometres, therefore I am seeking €600 per delayed passenger in my party. The total is €1,200 for all passengers.

During the delay the passengers in my party were provided with a voucher for under £7 for refreshments. This was insufficient for the length of the delay, and the passengers in my party spent £18 in addition to this voucher on refreshments. Please refund £18.

The total compensation sought is:
€1,200
£18

I look forward to a full response to this letter within 14 days. If I do not receive a satisfactory response I intend to pursue my complaint further, which could mean taking it to court.

Yours faithfully,

---

Fraya Holmes, Jan 02 16:16 (GMT):
Reference: 42914553/T519549J

02 January 2013

Dear Mr

Firstly, I would like to thank you for taking the time to write to us about your recent travel arrangements

Having read the content of your letter, I can see that aspects of the holiday have given cause for concern. I am sorry that this is the case and would assure you that as a business, we utilise feedback to ensure that our products are improved and enhanced to reflect the needs of our customers.


We do advise all guests to view a brochure prior to their departure. This is because it contains valuable information for guests as well as containing the booking conditions, which form part of the contract between us. Our booking conditions state that a letter should be sent to our Customer Relations Department within 28 days of return from holiday. Failing to complain within 28 days of return may reduce or extinguish any rights the guest has to make a claim from us and ultimately may mean that we are unable to investigate your concerns.


In light of the above and due to the time that has elapsed since your return and writing to us, I regret to advise that we are unable to investigate the comments.

Nevertheless, the information that has been supplied will be shared with our colleagues overseas and our Quality Assurance department, so that we can work with our suppliers to identify any immediate solutions

In closing I would like to thank you for taking the time to bring this matter to our attention and regret any impact this may have had upon your holiday enjoyment

Yours sincerely
Fraya Holmes

Customer Relations Team

---

Jan 02 16:39 (GMT):


Thank you for your swift reply

Unfortunately, as referenced in my letter, the Court of Justice of the European Union has recently confirmed that in cases such as mine, the passenger is entitled to compensation.

It is unfortunate that your brochure does not reflect this, but I shall choose to follow the information provided by the courts rather than the information in your brochure.


The court of justice has also made clear that the passenger has a right to claim compensation (at the fixed levels detailed in my email attachment) up to 5 years after the flight in question. There is no legal requirement for me to contact you within 28 days

May I please ask that your legal team, or somebody in a position of authority look at my complaint and respond to me within the next 14 days. If this matter is not resolved in accordance with my initial email, I shall not hesitate to contact the Civil Aviation Authority. If necessary I shall also commence court proceedings against Thomas Cook

If you are not aware of the court ruling that I have made reference to, please review the following internet page before responding to me again:
 ********

Thanks again for your time, I look forward to hearing from you shortly

---

03 January 2013

I am writing in response to your further correspondence regarding your recent travel arrangements with Thomas Cook.


It is with regret that I note your flight with us was delayed. Whilst delays are an unfortunate part of air travel, I would like to assure you that a lot of work goes on behind the scenes to ensure that any disruption to our passengers is kept to an absolute minimum.


When a delay is initially identified, it is not always immediately apparent as to when a revised take off time can be secured. A number of factors have to be considered, which can vary dependent on the reason for the delay, and quite often we are reliant on outside influences, such as Airport Authorities or Air Traffic Control. Throughout, however, as soon as confirmed information is available, this is passed onto our customers as quickly as possible through our handling agents at the airport.


Although delays do occur on occasion, they can arise for a number of different reasons, and having carried out a full investigation the specific circumstances surrounding the delay to your own flight were of a technical nature, which were extraordinary, despite Thomas Cook taking all reasonable precautions necessary to prevent the situation. All aircraft can experience technical problems that are totally unforeseen, despite all reasonable attempts to ensure they are maintained to a good standard, in line with CAA regulations. These situations can be compared to the maintenance of your own car, which can break down at any time without prior warning, regardless of its service history, and would be considered completely beyond the owners control.


I can see that customers were provided with welfare during the delay, in line with our obligations under EU Regulation 261/2004. As the events were defined as “extraordinary” no payment of compensation is considered appropriate in this case.


Please be assured that on-time performance is a key measure for us as a business, and we constantly review our operations to ensure we deliver the best results, and service. I would like to offer our apologies for any inconvenience you were caused on this occasion and I hope that despite this, your stay was found to be an enjoyable one.


Yours sincerely
Fraya Holmes

Customer Relations Team

---

Date: 3 January 2013 16:57:31 GMT
> To:
Reference: 42914553/T519549J


Thank you again for your prompt reply.

I do however dispute what you are telling me. According to the CAA, the following circumstances constitute 'Extraordinary':

Bad Weather

Industrial Action

Political unrest

Security issues
Air Traffic Management issues


Extraordinary relates to anything which is out of the airline's hands, and cannot be influenced by the airline. Technical problems are not included in the list of 'Extraordinary Circumstances' as they are controlled by the airline.

I have now been told that I do not have grounds for compensation for 2 entirely separate reasons:


1) I did not claim within 28 days

2) The circumstances are extraordinary

Neither of these reasons legally prevent me from making a claim for compensation.

The first is purely a Thomas Cook policy decision, the second appears to be an attempt to mislead me with industry jargon. I do not expect to be given a third incorrect reason.

As this is a ruling by the European Court of Justice, I expect you and your company to abide by the ruling, and offer me the compensation that I am rightly entitled to. I am astounded that instead, you provide reasons to avoid your responsibilities.


Once again, I look forward to your reply - hopefully this time you will take responsibility and offer me what I am rightfully entitled to. If this matter is not resolved within the next 14 days, you will leave me with no option that to complain the the CAA and to look at commencing court proceedings.


Thank you once again

---

Jan 12 08:54
Hi
I note that as yet, I have not received a response from you regarding my most recent email (please see below).
I look forward to a reply.
Thanks

---

Dawn Hulme, Jan 16 13:01 (GMT):
Dear

I write to acknowledge receipt of your further communication.
I am sorry that you remain unhappy with the way your complaint has been dealt with initially and the further comments you have made will certainly be considered.

Following a review of your entire case, you will be contacted again with a view to bringing this matter to a satisfactory conclusion for all concerned.

Again, we will endeavour to respond to you as quickly as possible. In the meantime, I apologise for any delay in our further reply and should you wish to contact us again please do so via *****

Yours sincerely
Dawn
Customer Relations Executive

---

Feb 04 16:56 (GMT):
Reference: 42914553/T519549J



Hi


I just wondered how your investigations into my claim are progressing. It seems like some time since you told me that you were fully reviewing my case so that things could be fully resolved.


Thanks


---

Fraya Holmes, Feb 06 14:41 (GMT):

Dear

Thank you for your recent communication.

As a member of ABTA, we endeavour to respond to our customers concerns within 28 days of receipt. We use this time to investigate the comments raised and to try and ensure the matter does not recur.

Please rest assured that a member of our team will contact you once our investigations have been completed.


Thank you for contacting Thomas Cook Customer Relations


Yours sincerely
Fraya
Customer Relations Executive

---

Hi
You responded to my email by telling me that you require 28 days to investigate and respond.

As my initial email was sent to you on 28/12/12, I think that you have now had more than sufficient time.

Could you please settle this matter within the next 7 days, or I will be forced to pursue this via other channels.

Thanks

---

Fraya Holmes, Feb 13 15:24 (GMT):

Thank you for your recent communication.

We would like to apologise for the delay in responding to you, and assure you that your concerns have been taken seriously.

Due to the nature of your comments, we are investigating the matter with the relevant departments.

Rest assured that a member of our department will be in contact with you shortly.

Thank you for contacting Customer Relations.

Yours sincerely
Fraya
Customer Relations Executive

---

Hi

I am sorry but I do not accept that answer. You have had since December to investigate, yet according to your earlier emails you already know the reasons for the delay.

It does not take this long to investigate. You are either going to compensate me as I am entitled, or you are not and I shall take legal advice.

I will not accept any further delaying tactics without sending my entire record of emails to the media while pursuing this matter through the legal system if I do not receive a full response to bring this matter to a conclusion by the end of the week.

Thanks you

---

Fraya Holmes, Feb 14 09:37 (GMT):

Dear

Thank you for your email.

I am sorry that you are unhappy with our response times, however we must be fair to our customers and respond to complaints in date order.

As your case was re-opened on 16th January and we are currently working on responses to files received in December, we ask that you bear with us a little longer for our reply.


Kind regards

Fraya

---

Hi

Another month has gone by, and this is still not resolved. I suspect that since this ruling, you have been inundated with similar claims, and are waiting for your head office to formulate a process - either that or you're waiting to see how the industry deals with this.

Personally I feel that 3 months since my initial email to you is a ridiculous timescale.

I now do not care whether I am top of your work queue - you should never have closed down my claim in the first place after simply trying to 'fob me off' with untruths!

You now have 7 days to respond, or I shall publish our entire thread of mails on the internet, Twitter, Facebook, consumer groups, and forums. I will send it to every single news publication that I can find, and I shall complain to every body involved in your regulation.

None of this needs to happen - you just have to treat me fairly, resolve my claim without any further delay tactics, and I shall go away!

---

28 March 2013
Hi

I have still not received any response to this email, as promised by your auto reply.

Could you please advise as a matter of urgency, on the state of my claim? Please review the full case before responding.

I believe that 3 months is sufficient time for you to resolve this!

Thanks

---

28 March 2013
Your request has been received, and is being reviewed by our Customer Relations Team.

Pete,

What do you want us to say? You are being given the runaround, obviously. Carry on with the correspondence if you want. But there is only one way to bring it to a resolution - and I'll give you a clue: it ain't by writing to the CAA.

Vauban