Ubuntu v7.04 (Feisty) Released

Lexis200

With regards to installing hardware it can be very easy. In some cases easier than Windows. A lot of cards/devices already have drivers in Linux, or there are generic ones which they'll work with. The trick is to pick hardware that will work with Linux in the first place.

That's a bit of a blinkered statement isn't it? I shouldn't have to buy new hardware to run a mature OS.

I'm the same as several posters in the thread... seasoned Windows user (I do desktop, server and network support for my job), and I load up the occassional Linux distro now and again to see if I can get to grips with it. However, a case in point is this...

I have Sky broadband (a Netgear router) and Netgear USB network dongles. Anyone who has Sky BB knows it's shipped, sensibly, with WPA-PSK on by default. No probllem in Windows, but Ubuntu (and maybe many other distros but I haven't checked revently) doesn't do WPA-PSK out of the box for Netgear cards. Instead you have to get ndiswrapper and the Windows drivers, and then fiddle about on the command line "making" this and "compiling" that to get it to work, and commenting out other drivers because they don't play nicely together. At least with Windows, you just download and run drivers and they (usually) just work.

I've spent ages trying to get WPA-PSK to work. WEP is fine so I know the hardware is OK. I've also spend hours trawling around one forum after another, each of them saying that their "solution" is the best out there, with 50-odd comments after it saying either yes it is, or no it still doesn't work. I'm not going to compromise security by going back to WEP, so the Ubuntu CD is once again consigned to the bin.

Don't get me wrong now, I'm not saying Windows is perfect (far from it) but it's *easier*, and that's why Linux will only be for hardcore techies and above to use. Ubuntu is definitely on it's way to converting the masses but until it's "strengths" of command line editing are abolished in favour of point and click, it'll never become anything more than a niche product for techies with time on their hands.

Dave

Lexis200

Quote:
Originally Posted by toasterman View Post
I have done too for Windows. Although its very difficult to permanently screw up your resolution on Windows..for example. There's a safe mode you can go into to fix it.
There's a test button that checks to make sure its not too high before it makes it permanent.
And it works because you don't have to modify it in a text file and reboot, to see the results.
It's quite easy to recover graphically, you just need to select "Recovery Mode" when booting and type "dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg". It'll quickly run you through resetting your graphical settings, and you'll be back within minutes.

I believe this was what toasterman was trying to get at... how exactly is a linux newbie supposed to know that? I've never tried the recovery mode, but it sounds like a command line interface... how is that helpful?

I don't want to get into a Windows v Linux slanging match btw... each to their own, and in any case someday I'd like to move to Linux. Its just not today.

Dave

wolfman

Lexis200 wrote: »

I have Sky broadband (a Netgear router) and Netgear USB network dongles. Anyone who has Sky BB knows it's shipped, sensibly, with WPA-PSK on by default. No probllem in Windows, but Ubuntu (and maybe many other distros but I haven't checked revently) doesn't do WPA-PSK out of the box for Netgear cards. Instead you have to get ndiswrapper and the Windows drivers, and then fiddle about on the command line "making" this and "compiling" that to get it to work, and commenting out other drivers because they don't play nicely together. At least with Windows, you just download and run drivers and they (usually) just work.

My only experience with a Netgear worked out of the box.
The WG311GT. Installed Edgy. Added Network Manager (which now comes with Feisty) and it all worked. I just had to select the network I wanted to join, WPA-PSK and then enter my key. No drivers needed like with Windows. A good example of picking the right hardware. It can make things so easy.

My point with buying hardware, is that I no longer buy hardware that is restricted to one platform. Why should it be, especially given the nature of a pc. Some manufacturers are doing very well. A good comparison is nVidia vs ATI. nVidia are showing commitment, and listening to their audience which is something worth valuing.

Windows is "easier" in quite a few circumstances, but at the same time, it can often come down to being more familiar than easier. Once you're familiar with Linux it becomes easier than Windows.

I for example, can install Feisty straight off. run a few scripts and my install is virtually all set up. I do use unattended installs with Windows, but it still takes much longer. I no longer need to worry about anti-spyware or viruses, no performance in terms of defragmenting. There's no DRM built in, and I don't get annoying genuine update nags. It also runs faster on my current hardware than Windows.

wolfman

Lexis200 wrote: »

I believe this was what toasterman was trying to get at... how exactly is a linux newbie supposed to know that? I've never tried the recovery mode, but it sounds like a command line interface... how is that helpful?

It's starts as command line, but the command I mentioned launches a DOS like app. It's no different from the Windows Recovery Console.

Also it's no harder than trying to run safe mode (does a newbie know to press F8 on boot???) and then once in safe mode find your way to the Device Manager, and then the graphics card within the device manager and then to uninstall the driver etc...

GaryS

Updating to 7.04 as I type.

tweeter

I see on Google various people show you how to do a dual boot.Windows XP have their own thing called Virtual PC 2007.If Windows XP got trashed by some trojan, would that not be the end of your linux system as well.Seems too chancy to try out the Windows thingy for a newbie.

Has anybody installed a dual boot using video instuctions like from the link below.As they say, a picture is worth a thousand words.If they are worth following, any recommends from the page would be welcome.

http://video.google.com/videosearch?client=opera&rls=en&q=dual%20boot&sourceid=opera&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&um=1&sa=N&tab=wv

toasterman

wolfman wrote: »

Once you've done maybe a dozen installs, you should be quite quick and confident at installing Linux (Ubuntu). It takes a while to find a few fixes for odd bits of hardware, but once you have it's quite easy second time round.

The main problems for me are:
- Poor driver support in terms of ATI. NVidia are ok, still not perfect, but nowhere near as bad as ATI.

You see that I don't understand. I don't know what Nvidia are like, but ATI have Linux drivers on their website for a lot of their cards. Including mine, I'd like to add.

wolfman wrote: »

The great things about Linux for me:
- Once you get it running that's it. It'll virtually run and run with little performance loss, whereas Windows does start dip and require maintenance.
- If using something like EXT3 instead or NTFS, you'll find you won't need to defragment (or at least maybe once in a blue moon).
- When I first switched some of the apps in Windows I preferred, or were more familiar with, but I got used to the Linux versions and now find them to be great if not better in some cases.

I was sat at a Windows server today which needed defragmenting badly, and as I advised the owner they might want to start this when they leave for the day as it could take all night, I wondered about defragging....whether it was needed, as its a totally different file system.
Come to think about it, I've never had a mac user mention defragging either.
Maybe its a quirky windows thing.
On my GBPVR tv box - at least the drive where I save all my recordings, it needs defragging once a fortnight really. Not really an issue, cause its a dedicated tv recorder, but I was surprised at how often it needed doing.

wolfman wrote: »

Beryl isn't quite at the stable release yet. Very close. Also, Compiz (the Beryl equivalent) is "considered" more stable than Beryl by some of the community. I think it's actually included in Feisty under Desktop Effects. You really need an nVidia card to use it though (you'll need to install XGL for it to work with an ATI).

Thanks for that. When Beryl/Compiz is a bit more stable, accepted, running with all graphics cards, that should be good.

toasterman

Lexis200 wrote: »

I have Sky broadband (a Netgear router) and Netgear USB network dongles. Anyone who has Sky BB knows it's shipped, sensibly, with WPA-PSK on by default. No probllem in Windows, but Ubuntu (and maybe many other distros but I haven't checked revently) doesn't do WPA-PSK out of the box for Netgear cards. <snip> I'm not going to compromise security by going back to WEP, so the Ubuntu CD is once again consigned to the bin.

Dave

I tried to get my Linksys ext usb wireless receiver thing to work on so many versions of Linux, ndiswrapper whatsits aplenty, different drivers from different version models. It never worked.
In the end though, I got hacked off with getting such a terrible signal on it in - (and the stupid thing randomly locking up in Windows), and ditched it.
I bought myself another router the same as the one plugged into my cable modem, and built myself a wireless bridge. Now I plug my desktop pc in (with a nice secure ethernet cable) to that router, and I don't have to muck about with dodgy wireless software.
I don't know why - but wireless on a laptop works so much better than wireless on a desktop pc. Usb dongles, leads, external aerials.. they're all cr4p. On a laptop, it just works.

My mate bought a laptop in the january sales, stuck ubuntu on it to see what it was like - he had the same problem with wpa-psk - just didn't work. From some info I read, I believe they've improved that on the new version of ubuntu.

toasterman

Just replying to my own replies...with some linux questions:

Is there a Linux equivalent of the Windows "services"?
What about a task list of everything running?
The "registry" doesn't exist in Linux does it?

As far as hardware support goes, I suppose the easiest thing to do is buy something like this -> http://www.ebuyer.com/UK/product/126199 which comes with Linux. Although regardless of what people say about Linux's effeciency on lower spec hardware, I'd imagine that it would run pretty poor on something that basic.

Lexis200

My point with buying hardware, is that I no longer buy hardware that is restricted to one platform.

Fair enough, but what about the hardware I already own? I'm not going to go out and buy new hardware just cos the OS requires it (and before you mention "Vista" and "RAM" in the same sentence, I've beaten you to it and no, I'm not upgrading to Vista either).

Added Network Manager (which now comes with Feisty) and it all worked

Perhaps that's where I'm going wrong? After running the liveCD, then installing, do I have to add the network manager as well, or do you mean that it's now part of the OS? Out of the box, I can see the router in the network thingy at the top, but when I click on it it says "the requested wireless network requires security capabilities unsupported by your network hardware".

I for example, can install Feisty straight off. run a few scripts and my install is virtually all set up

Care to share your scripts? I'd be interested to see what they do.

Also it's no harder than trying to run safe mode (does a newbie know to press F8 on boot???) and then once in safe mode find your way to the Device Manager, and then the graphics card within the device manager and then to uninstall the driver etc...

Fair enough, I did think of that after I posted, but I thought I might be able to sneak it past you

My mate bought a laptop in the january sales, stuck ubuntu on it to see what it was like - he had the same problem with wpa-psk - just didn't work. From some info I read, I believe they've improved that on the new version of ubuntu.

I played about with Edgy a while ago, and after 3 evenings of tinkering and reading hundreds of forum posts I did actually manage to get WPA-PSK to work... briefly. I don't know what I did to get it to work, and after I rebooted a while later it stopped and never worked again. Fiesty would appear to be further down the path out of the box, but presumably only for certain hardware. I'm going to have 1 more go tomorrow evening reading the forums and trying stuff out, and if it doesn't work it's going on the back burner again for a few months as I just can't justify the time spent. Shame really...