Vodafone, when unlimited texts arent actually unlimited and charging me £157 !

MillicentBystander

Says the person with over 25,000 posts on ONE internet discussion site.

/shakes head/

Guys_Dad

Techhead wrote: »

There are quite a few.

The point your missing is that the ' unlimited ' on its own doesn't tell you about the context and sense of whatever communication it is in.

As an example take the the phrase ' unlimited soft drink refills ' ; there are obviously limits there. The unlimited here means you can fill the cup a many times as you like, during one visit to the restaurant, subject to the capacity of drink dispenser; the capacity of your bladder and any health issues . ( Those can also be further defined )
.

Poor example. Particularly as the examples have clear physical constraints. Obviously the same constraints didn't apply to OP as they were able to use the texts, but were charged for over use.

And, to judge by the Official Forum team from Voda, the definition of unlimited has a, shall we say, "fluid" interpretation.

Read yet another reply from them to someone called loony

17-12-2011 09:09 AM
Hi Loony,

When it comes to the texts on a price plan its hard to say exactly without looking at your account.

We currently have different amounts of texts on a price plan from 500 text, 3000 texts or unlimited.

Basically, depending on the price plan that was chosen will depend on what level of messages you get as the unlimited texts are truly unlimited with no fair usage policy applied.

By the sounds of it you have been put on a price plan that has 3000 texts rather than unlimited.

If you would like us to look at your options please reply to the email that i have sent you and i will be able to take a look at the account.

As it is the weekend we are very short on staff so a response to your email may not be given until early next week.

James

or

19-03-2012 09:23 AM - edited 19-03-2012 09:24 AM
Hi Hattie_01,

To be honest when it comes to our text packs we do a few variants with different plans that offer 250, 3000 or unlimited texts with no fair usage.

So we can take a look at your price plan and see exactly what you have on your account I have sent you a quick PM with details of how to get in touch with our team directly, please follow these instructions and one of our team will be able to pick this up for you.

You can find your PM inbox here.

James

If you have any comments regarding how I have handled your query today, please complete our short feedback survey.

or

20-01-2012 11:28 AM
Hi unplayable,

Thanks for your post about your plan.

Could you post a screenshot of your home page for MyAccount, editing the personal information out in the process?

I'm concerned that there are too many inconsistencies on your account. Have you ever been charged for SMS since you've been on the unlimited plan? I obviously don't include international texts or text info service texts in my question

Hey rockhopper1964,

Could you do the same for me? If you're on an unlimited plan then it should be truly unlimited, as you say.

Cheers,

Lee

I got all of these gems from looking at Vodafone's t&c page and using their search with either "unlimites texts" or "fair use".

Now, if these are official Voda reps on the Vodafone forum making these points, how is any user of the network able know if unlimited is unlimited or subject to an arbitrary cut off? And it is also obvious that Voda are using different meanings of the word "unlimited"

macman

MillicentBystander wrote: »

Says the person with over 25,000 posts on ONE internet discussion site.

/shakes head/

Ah, but I don't pay extra when I go over 3000 posts per month...:D

Emy1501

3k worth of texts isnt a huge amount for a kid. Mine averages 2900 a month and he is doing A levels and has 2 jobs. He also uses BBM.

Vodafone can use what ever misleading marketing they want but in the SCC a judge will be more interested in what is a lay persons reasonable understanding of the word unlimited and is it reasonable for someone using the service to expect anything otherwise.

Fair usage policy are fine for arguing against companies buying contracts and then using them to send spam emails etc.

As for the example with regards to refills for me a better example would be me going to nando's having 10 unlimited refills and then as I leave the shop being asked for extra cash and being shown an obscure sign pointing out a fair usage policy with regards to refills.

MillicentBystander

Yes, I have 2 kids and basically the text has totally replaced the spoken word. I suppose I'm showing my age here but I'm forever asking them why use 10 texts getting something sorted with their friends (maybe arranging a night out) when a 1 minute call would have sorted it? Oh well. To be fair at the speed they can text the total time expended on 10 texts wouldn't be much more than a 1 minute phone call anyway.

PS I agree, no way this sort of nonsense marketing would stand up in court. i definitely wouldn't pay the bill and inform them straight away that I would be happy to let it go to court...

sniggings

wouldn't limited texts to say 100 or 200 different numbers solve the problem of people taking advantage and using unlimited text allowances for bulk text mailings. Then unlimited could mean just that.

MillicentBystander

sniggings wrote: »

wouldn't limited texts to say 100 or 200 different numbers solve the problem of people taking advantage and using unlimited text allowances for bulk text mailings. Then unlimited could mean just that.

My wife's SIM deal (with Utility Warehouse) says exactly that in the T&Cs. It's a much better/more sensible way of dealing with stuff like this and like you say would exclude the business users/abusers easily.

If you are using a tariff which includes unlimited free texts, this only applies to text messages sent while you are within the UK to other UK mobiles and is subject to you not sending text messages to more than 100 different numbers during any calendar month; if you exceed this limit we reserve the right to charge individually for each text you have sent at a price of 3p per text message.

Earthworm

Legally I can accept a fair usage policy on unlimited plans but that does not then warrant charges for exceeding a predefined amount. If you are being charged then the word unlimited should have never been mentioned on the original sales call.

A fair usage policy is there to curb excessive usage and a way to allow networks to offer unlimited services. Logically exceeding the FUP you should have been warned and then had text messages restricted on your phone until your bill date. If you exceed your broadband fair usage you are slowed down... When you get charged this then suggests it is a limit.

I believe you totally have a case against Vodafone here. It is not often I say this but this comes across as totally misleading.

Techhead_2

MillicentBystander wrote: »

My wife's SIM deal (with Utility Warehouse) says exactly that in the T&Cs. It's a much better/more sensible way of dealing with stuff like this and like you say would exclude the business users/abusers easily.

I mentioned this above and other ways that fair usage policies can be set.

However it is done then there will always be people who think it isn't fair. For some they will never be able to get over the fact that context and sense are just as important as the dictionary definition of one particular meaning of a word.

Guys_Dad

Well, that's interesting. I rang Vodafone this morning asking about what "unlimited" actually meant.

First guy told me that on their red plan,unlimited means unlimited. On older plans, it may not! When I referred him to the web site, he chickened out and got someone to ring me back from their sales team.

She said to me that she had been with Vodafone for 3 years and unlimited meant exactly that - no limit and that she personally had gone over 3000 loads of times.

I referred her to here http://www.vodafone.co.uk/vodafone-uk/about-this-site/terms-and-conditions/products-and-services/vodafone-text-unlimited/index.htm which says "This offer is subject at all times to a fair usage policy each month of 3000 text messages. Usage above this will be automatically charged at your price plan rate. We will notify you by text message when you reach this limit."

She pointed out that this "unlimited" plan was a PAYG one.

So I read the Vodafone t&c section http://www.vodafone.co.uk/vodafone-uk/about-this-site/terms-and-conditions/index.htm#M

All of their terms and conditions are alphabetically listed. None for

• Fair use
• Unlimited
• Text

So I saw Pay monthly price plans (before 7 September 2012)
http://www.vodafone.co.uk/cs/groups/vodafoneukonline/documents/assets/vftst160597.pdf

No mention of Fair use here.

There is, however, this in the appendix to the t&c Price Plan Terms From July 1 2009 - http://www.vodafone.co.uk/vodafone-uk/about-this-site/terms-and-conditions/products-and-services/pay-monthly-price-plan-terms-your-plan-from-1-july-2009/index.htm

27. All Vodafone services offered free or under unlimited subscription are subject to our Fair Use Policy. If, in the reasonable opinion of Vodafone, your use is excessive, we may ask you to moderate your usage. If, after we have asked you to moderate your usage, you fail to do so, we reserve the right to:

(a) charge you for the excessive element of your usage at your price plan's standard rate;

(b) throttle your usage; or

(c) suspend or terminate your service in accordance with your airtime terms and conditions.

The conclusion of all of this, apart from Vodafone having more meanings of "Unlimited" than Eskimos have words for "snow" is that you should quote this to Vodafone and demand that they remove the charge as it clearly shows that you should have been warned to restrict your use before any charges were made.

Also you should ask them to point you to the fair use policy that enables them to make a charge if you go over 3000 texts and where you can find it on the web.

Then refer them to the links I have given you throughout this thread.

If you are unsuccessful in getting the charge reduced to zero, then your success in any Small Claims Court - should they bother to attend - is as near assured as I can find.

But, pay the charge if they won't reduce it to zero, then go for them through the SCC.