TV Licence - misleading and confusing

Dollardog

But even with a search warrant, and seeing a connected tv, they still couldn't prove that you had been watching live tv unless they had some sort of recording from standing outside your house at a certain time with a live program that could be heard, or filmed through a window or something. All that a search would prove would be that you had the equipment installed, not that you were using it.
I think my old pc might have a tv card installed, I did try connecting it to an indoor aerial, years ago, but didn't have any luck getting a program. I seem to remember that was one of its features, but didn't get it to work and gave up.

Dollardog

sniggings wrote: »

I agree he shouldn't have let him in.


lol that too was on a youtube vid, an inspector being refused access, seeing the sky dish and saying he was going away to get a warrant as he had a dish.

But did they actually come back with a search warrant? Was that enough evidence to convince a judge to grant one?
My neighbour has a dish from when they used to use it, but doesn't anymore.

sniggings

Dollardog wrote: »

But did they actually come back with a search warrant? Was that enough evidence to convince a judge to grant one?
My neighbour has a dish from when they used to use it, but doesn't anymore.

don't know,

but reading 120,000 people got fined last year it makes you wonder, were they all caught watching TV or do we misunderstand and having the equipment connected is enough or did they all admit to watching TV?

Dollardog

Dollardog wrote: »

But did they actually come back with a search warrant? Was that enough evidence to convince a judge to grant one?
My neighbour has a dish from when they used to use it, but doesn't anymore.

Mind you, he does have a license and watches TV every night as can clearly be seen through his window. That to me would be proof, if they could see a particular footie match or program that they knew was on at a certain time and were able to film it through the window. You wouldn't have a leg to stand on then.

sniggings

this from the TV licencing site confuses me because how can they check if I do not need a licence by visiting my home, if I have the equipent but not using it, are they really expecting me to open the door to them and invite them in then sit down and watch a live TV feed :eek:

what are they checking for if not the equipment?

I don't have a TV, why do I keep getting letters sent to me?

The law states that you need to be covered by a TV Licence if you watch or record television programmes, on any device, as they're being shown on TV. This includes TVs, computers, mobile phones, games consoles, digital boxes and DVD/VHS recorders. We have an obligation to ensure as far as possible that everyone who needs a TV Licence has one.
In order to do this we write to all addresses where no licence details are recorded. If we are told that there is no television used at an address, we will stop standard letters being sent and an Enforcement Officer will be scheduled to visit. If the Enforcement Officer can confirm that there is no need for a TV Licence at the address then we will not contact the address again for a fixed period of time.
If you don’t watch or record television programmes, on any device, as they’re being shown on TV, you can let us know if you believe that you don’t require a TV Licence.

Dollardog

What about search warrants? Before a search warrant can be issued, TVL/BBC must satisfy the court that they have "reasonable grounds" for believing that broadcasts are being received at the unlicenced address. The simple absence of a licence does not constitute this, nor does the householder's refusal to communicate with TVL/BBC. To obtain a search warrant, TVL/BBC must offer the court positive evidence, such as seeing or hearing a television, or the householder's own admission. Without such evidence, TVL/BBC cannot apply for a search warrant, and without a search warrant, they cannot enter. So, they are back to square one.

Quoting from:- http://www.televisionlicence.info/tvl/licence

TVL Information

• Your Rights

Do I Need A Licence? UK television licences are regulated by the Communications Act (2003) and The Communications (Television Licensing) Regulations 2004.
When do I need a licence?

Under the current legislation, you need a licence if you:

• Watch or record live (or nearly live) television programmes.

This is the only situation in which you need a television licence (although note that, if you are over 75, a licence is available at no charge).
A television licence is required no matter what kind of device is used - television sets, DVD players or recorders, set-top boxes, computers, or even mobile phones.
When do I not need a licence?

You do not need a licence to:

• Own a television set.
• Use a television with a video console.
• Use a television with a computer.
• Use a television to listen to the radio (e.g., via a digibox).
• Use a television to watch DVDs, videos, or pre-recorded programmes.
• Use a television to watch internet video (e.g., YouTube).
• Use a television to watch TV programmes that are not being transmitted live (e.g., iPlayer).

Owning a device that is capable of receiving live television does not require you to purchase a television licence.
A television licence is only required if you actually use that device to receive live television. If you do not receive live television, you do not need a licence.

sniggings

Dollardog wrote: »

What about search warrants? Before a search warrant can be issued, TVL/BBC must satisfy the court that they have "reasonable grounds" for believing that broadcasts are being received at the unlicenced address. The simple absence of a licence does not constitute this, nor does the householder's refusal to communicate with TVL/BBC. To obtain a search warrant, TVL/BBC must offer the court positive evidence, such as seeing or hearing a television, or the householder's own admission. Without such evidence, TVL/BBC cannot apply for a search warrant, and without a search warrant, they cannot enter. So, they are back to square one.

.

but even that is not totally clear, as if you stand out side my flat, will will most likely see and hear a TV and see an aerial and a sky dish, so according to the above that is enough, but if what I'm watching is not a live feed can they still get a warrant.

I'm still wondering what the inspector's visit is meant to achive, if I tell them I'm not watching live feeds, what is a visit going to prove?

Dollardog

I have no idea except its known that they get you to sign things saying you have been using the equipment for watching tv.
Best thing to do is ring and ask them, in fact I might even do that myself as I'd like to know.

sniggings

just found this too on your link, even more confused now :rotfl:

you may wish to record the search with a camera to ensure you have an accurate record of what takes place (e.g., to ensure that a de-tuned television is not re-tuned by a TVL employee) and to ensure that the search was carried out in accordance with the terms of the warrant.

so this seems to imply being caught watching is not needed but only having the ability to watch a live feed i.e a tuned TV.

Dollardog

Mobile phones these days are capable of receiving tv programs, so if they could prosecute you just for owning equipment which is able to receive programs, you could in theory be prosecuted for having a mobile phone.