Been called for medical - not happy

Muttleythefrog

krisskross wrote: »

So are you saying that people are motivated to claim money and actually put a great deal of effort into getting what they see as their entitlement but not motivated to seeking treatment that could help them get better?

Seems strange that mentally ill people can choose their areas of motivation.

Absolutely. Remember for the 'patient' the motivation is quite possibly governed by anxiety. And what causes the anxiety may not make a lot of sense... anxiety disorders for example do not. If someone is caused anxiety by something like change then logically they may use avoidance of the cause of the anxiety to cope. So they'll try to preserve their status quo... if that status quo means staying in, having no friends, seeking no help but claiming benefits so they don't have to go out and work.. then that's quite possibly what they'll do. I hate to sound a bit arrogant.. but these are very simple concepts to understand. Motivation isn't some universal... I couldn't get motivated to go to a cricket match if you paid me a thousand pounds... yet I could get motivated to punch your face if you left my garden gate open... yet I'm a nice guy.. why would I find it so easy to be motivated to attack a stranger and yet not go to a leisurely cricket match and get rewarded for the privilege. You're trying to rationalise what are problems people have that by definition are not rational..lol... it's like saying 'I do not understand why that crab with its legs chopped off doesn't move when a predator goes near it.. surely crabs will try to escape a predator'. You would explain that odd behaviour as being caused by the crab having no legs.. yet you struggle to comprehend odd behaviour in MH 'patients' who have defective or strange neurological activity. Why do I fly out the front door when someone leaves my gate open... yet at the same time claim I avoid people and struggle to move about the house. Surely if I can get motivated to go outside and attack someone then I can get motivated to move about the house easily enough... apparently not... but why not... because anxiety is driving the behaviour... I have little to no anxiety associated with not moving about the house... but extreme anxiety associated with the chaos caused by my gate left open.

When I sought 'help' from the NHS... me... a real case... I needed benefits to survive... the overwhelming anxieties I had at the time driving my behaviour to go to the NHS were nothing to do with getting better or seeking medical help or even recognising that there were problems I had... they were almost exclusively tied up with the issue of being able to sustain my circumstances... if the circumstances dramatically changed then I would have become very ill indeed... my focus was on preservation... being able to continue living in my house etc... that is still the case... I feel pinned down by reassessments and changing benefits... and indeed that is why I'm on MSE today... I talk about benefits to counter the anxieties associated with benefits. This if you like is my medication... although whether it'll have any positive long term effect is questionnable.

mazza111

My dd would quite happily ignore her MH problems, shut herself away from the outside world and let no one near her. But because I have to be active with her physical needs I feel I'm kinda pushing her into getting help for her MH problems too. She's just really coming to terms with things that she is depressed. She still has days where she turns her phone off, turns everything off and just stays in bed. But when it came to the time when she was not washing, not cleaning her flat (when she was able but depressed), not living, just existing, I stepped in and went to speak to her doctor on her behalf. Then made her an appointment to speak to the doctor herself.

Now all this time down the line, we're still 17 weeks away from her getting any kind of help. I do think her mood has improved by her being put on an A/D as a painkiller though, seems to be sleeping a bit better too. So who knows, maybe with the A/D she gets for her pain and the counselling, she'll come to terms with things a bit better.

She has a lot to come to terms with, especially with her physical health, so her MH seems to be taking a back seat, especially with the time scales involved in treating her.

On a positive note - She's definitely been referred to the top surgeon in ligament reconstruction at the hospital now, so we should hear within the next month or two if surgery is an option or not :D:D Fingers crossed

Tottyshouse

This is the danger though of listening too much to your therapist. If they told you that suicide wasn't a sign of being depressed would you believe them?? I think people choose to believe what they are told if it suits them. What are we advocating? That we keep on paying people regardless of whether they attempt to get better or not. In an ideal world maybe we could kill with kindness - but there's no money left. If you are dying of some disease you have absolutely no control over that is one thing. If you have an ailment where you can (and many others do) take steps to live with and function with then I think it is right that a time limit is put on a claim. Many years ago in my previous hellish incarnation as a Housing Officer I met a man who was signed off sick at 18 when he witnessed an accident. When I met him he was 54 and had never worked. What he witnessed at 18 was terrible, but did it justify him never working for his entire life? He did have mental health issues at 54 which I have no doubt were caused by allowing him to sit at home and live on the fringes of society. People who work full time just haven't got time to obsess about whether windows are being cleaned - or pipes are making strange noises. Whenever I had to see him I always thought he had been allowed to completely waste his life. No doubt 18 years on his life has not changed. Surely if someone had maybe pulled him from his comfort zone at 20 or 25 he may have had a life. But the bottom line is the country's finances, a great deal of public opinion and I think the policy of all the major political parties means a lot of people are going to be forced into looking for work whether they feel they are ready or capable or not. It isn't necessarily a bad thing.

PippaGirl_2

Tottyshouse wrote: »

This is the danger though of listening too much to your therapist. If they told you that suicide wasn't a sign of being depressed would you believe them??

That's NOT what my therapist said. What he said is that extensive studies have shown that over 70% of the population have at one time had thoughts of ending their life and that most of those have never experienced depression. That is a very different statement to the one you have just made saying suicide isn't a sign of being depressed.

What it is saying is that someone with suicidal thoughts may not be depressed.

PippaGirl_2

Tottyshouse wrote: »

In an ideal world maybe we could kill with kindness - but there's no money left.

I think that is debatable. It is the message the Condemns are putting out to justify their welfare cuts but they are choosing to pay full housing benefit for single/couple pensioners in their 4 bed social housing with no bedroom tax, they are choosing to pay very wealthy pensioners cold weather payments, choosing to pay very wealthy pensioners a free TV licence and choosing to pay very wealthy pensioners free bus travel. These pensioners don't need this money, but the Government obviously has plenty spare cash.

krisskross

PippaGirl wrote: »

I think that is debatable. It is the message the Condemns are putting out to justify their welfare cuts but they are choosing to pay full housing benefit for single/couple pensioners in their 4 bed social housing with no bedroom tax, they are choosing to pay very wealthy pensioners cold weather payments, choosing to pay very wealthy pensioners a free TV licence and choosing to pay very wealthy pensioners free bus travel. These pensioners don't need this money, but the Government obviously has plenty spare cash.

As not at all wealthy pensioners we do not get any help with our housing costs, nor do we get cold weather payments or a free TV licence. We do however have free bus travel but that is because we cannot afford a car.

Muttleythefrog

Tottyshouse wrote: »

What are we advocating?

To be honest.. in this section of the site all I'm advocating is sound benefit advice. The wider discussion... people have ideas that are not ever likely to see the light of day. People need to eat etc... the state will provide them money for that if they can't earn it themselves.. if the state doesn't then it simply would cause legal, social and crime related problems that'd probably end up costing even more. A system that demands people seek treatment.. covered that.. unworkable or outrageously demanding on public services. Bottom line for me.. given what we have currently is this... there are insufficient jobs for the population that desires a job.. I predict that that will not generally improve... our societies are moving away from a requirement of everyone to be functional in order to persist...things like skilled trades and farming put pay to that... and there's great and increasing competition for trade that creates jobs. The utopia of full employment.. jobs for all... is a self defeating dream. It seems to me therefore that rather than try to waste resources beating people into a situation where they may try to work or desire to work is pointless... at least for the society... for the individual perhaps not. Sometimes I think you have to just cut your losses. The alternative is a lot of expense for very little gain. It could turn out that sickness benefits would be most efficiently handled by the state by simply allowing for self declaration and minimal validation... after all.. if someone says they're too ill to work they aren't likely to make for a good job applicant or employee... either because they're notably ill or disabled or because they don't want to work.

I recall going to a job club for the longer term unemployed... a while back now... but I ended up on it due to 6 months out of work... I'd say 1/3rd of the people there were already working (on the fiddle).. 1/3rd would be totally unemployable in any job as they resembled extras from a zombie movie and had the language skills to match (perhaps in that there would be some potential of an appropriate role).. and 1/3rd were sitting there frustrated that they couldn't get on with their actual jobseeking. The club was completely pointless... suffice for the fact at least one person got a job to deliver it... and this I suspect mirrors many a scheme and idea surrounding changing the behaviour or work related activities of people. It seems many ideas are nothing more than to deal with the emotional needs of many members of the electorate... people who feel that others should behave like they do or should get less than they do etc. Even on MSE you can see some applaud the ESA regime... yet if they chose to dig a bit deeper I think they'd be quite disappointed at the scrutiny of claimants they perceive happens... I've been on ESA for 3.5 years and in that time the only real scrutiny of me was a farcical half hour medical with an out of her depth nurse.

mazza111

krisskross wrote: »

As not at all wealthy pensioners we do not get any help with our housing costs, nor do we get cold weather payments or a free TV licence. We do however have free bus travel but that is because we cannot afford a car.

There are some pensioners who are extremely well off though krisskross. Just like you see some disabled people as well off. I can see some pensioners who are extremely well off.

But if pensioners didn't get their free bus passes, would there be as many buses on the road as they are subsidised? Wouldn't it be a better idea for them to pay a half fare like we do with children aged 5-16?


I have to agree with pippagirl about the bedroom tax. Surely this was introduced to get people to downsize, like I did when the dd left home. Are you sure pensioners aren't included in this pippagirl?
If they aren't, then it's kinda defeating the purpose surely?


I have to take back what I said about the winter fuel allowance, I thought all pensioners got it, but it's only some on certain benefits that do get it.

It's only the over 75s who get their tv license free. Not all pensioners, which I think is fairy nuff, but do wonder if those wealthy pensioners should be getting it.

Tottyshouse, I don't think it's about pulling someone from their comfort zone, but encouraging them to get the help they need. You can't force someone to get medical treatment. I had an aunt who's breast was almost eaten away by cancer before any medical treatment was sought, why? Because she had a phobia of doctors, another MH condition. Now without a doubt, with counselling, she could have beaten this condition and got checked before it got to the stage where she died from the cancer. But how on earth can you force someone to get medical attention against their will?

I'm pretty sure my dd is only getting the help she's getting now because I'm forcing the issue for her. Many don't have family to do that for them, and are usually isolated from family because of their MH issues. Whether that be from them shutting themselves away from everyone, or the family washing their hands of them.

Depression and anxiety disorders can affect everyone differently, and just because one can, doesn't mean all can.

PippaGirl_2

Muttleythefrog wrote: »

To be honest.. in this section of the site all I'm advocating is sound benefit advice.

I think that statement should be gold plated. Actually shame that everytime someone started a thread in this forum there wasn't an automatic 2nd post attached to it as it went live saying "this board is for benefit advice only, please refrain from moral judgements and personal criticism".

Though if it happened and people adhered to it, there would probably be only a few regulars here as the majority are not here to help others and provide advice but get some sort of kick out of hounding others they look down on.

PippaGirl_2

Yes mazza, pensioners are protected from the bedroom tax. And yet they are the majority of those who are under occupied, especially very under occupied as in 4 bed accommodation while living alone/couple.