Been called for medical - not happy

mazza111

I agree with atrixblue here. I have had brilliant experiences with ATOS. And I wouldn't say they are all bad. I had consultations via telephone with them for my work, brilliant, had face 2 face consultation with them, brilliant (medical retirement). Then had IIDB, got refused, but that's good, was still treated ok by them. Then with ESA (put in WRAG), but that was exactly right for me at the time. So all in all my experience has been rather good with ATOS. All you can do is take them as you find them on the day.

My daughter's experience was rather different with them, but it's well documented on here. Needless to say, we're starting the process again, and I will be there for her WCA this time as I couldn't last time(hosp appointment). I will be making a recording of it for my own benefit too, so I can compare it with her report when it's done

Dunroamin

Muttleythefrog wrote: »

Absolutely. (There's no point punishing people for suffering the symptoms of illnesses that they're otherwise being supported because of).

I have to disagree.

Just as we make seeking work a prerequisite for claiming JSA, so we should expect those who claim sickness benefits to make every endeavour to seek treatment and work towards recovery. (Where this is a possibility.)

sarahg1969

Dunroamin wrote: »

I have to disagree.

Just as we make seeking work a prerequisite for claiming JSA, so we should expect those who claim sickness benefits to make every endeavour to seek treatment and work towards recovery. (Where this is a possibility.)

And we should also expect them to provide evidence that they are sick, rather than allowing them simply to languish on benefits for tens of years without any questions.

Muttleythefrog

Dunroamin wrote: »

I have to disagree.

Just as we make seeking work a prerequisite for claiming JSA, so we should expect those who claim sickness benefits to make every endeavour to seek treatment and work towards recovery. (Where this is a possibility.)

It's probably unworkable.. as per discussion had in other parts of the site.. it'd be incredibly complex, subjective and contradictory. It'd probably be expensive too since you'd be placing extra demands on NHS and DWP or their contractors. The system rather than looking at the disabilities of the claimant would instead have to do that plus identify the underlying medical problems plus identify the relevant treatments plus get a consensus opinion from NHS on what treatments are appropriate in the case of the claimant plus provide constant feedback on compliance with such treatments plus provide updates on medical advancement and similar issues like service availability (you could find one claimant in one part of the country is not entitled to a benefit that someone in another part of the country is despite them suffering identical problems.. one may refuse to engage a service that someone else doesn;t have the option of refusing). The DWP DM, apart from probably needing some significant extra training, is also going to have to have systems built up around them to give them medical expertise since you can bet your life they'll come under pressure to understand significant medical related information and deal with conflicting medical information (such as where claimant provides conflicting medical reports to that commissioned within the system).

For one... the person may be getting the benefits for reasons that may imply they wouldn't be compliant with, or of mindset, to seek or sustain treatment. Look at some of the descriptors regarding the WCA... any fool can see that some people triggering descriptors that qualify them for the benefit would be denied the benefit for reasons that they would get the benefit. It'd be like telling someone they can only get ESA given their broken legs if they can run a half marathon in under 2 hours... rather stupid. A system that expects people to switch off illness in order to comply with the process of entitlement would be about the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard.

Secondly. It assumes that there is a logical treatment for conditions that the system isn't even geared to identify the existence of. Diagnosis may not be known... may not be required... and even then there may be no treatment... or treatment that is not universally agreed on. How could the system function around this. Use me as example... I was diagnosed with anxiety... I haven't a damned clue why I am awarded ESA in medical terms... yet your system will expect me to seek treatment for a condition that may or may not be causing my inability to work and that may or may not be diagnosed. Does that sound a little crackers to you... or is it because I am crackers that it sounds crackers.. I think we both know the answer to that. Even worse.. you could end up punishing people who just want to try to see out their life as best they can... some people may reject treatment for very good reason... in terms of their wellbeing.. some may do so for religious or ethical reasons. And just for good measure what happens when you do get conflicting opinion... are you really going to rely on a DWP DM to make a medical decision on the appropriate treatment of a patient.

"(Where this is a possibility)" - this means nothing. This is opinion based... and based upon assumption of good clinical understanding. Some people on ESA haven't even got a diagnosis... so what is possible may as well belong in the realm of faith than factual decision.

What you suggest at face value isn't particularly controversial or silly. Unfortunately to mean anything it needs to be implemented. That's where most ideas will meet their death. And to be blunt... this is a classic example.. wishful thinking rather than workable policy. The point I made to which you responded wasn't so much my opinion to disagree with.. it was a statement of what is probably inevitable given the current systems in being... I'm a realist... I rarely give my actual view on political matters on MSE as there would be no practical purpose... my actual view may be that there should be no sickness benefits full stop (or even an NHS)... and if that was my opinion it'd be rather pointless to give it when someone is asking for advice regarding a system that does have such.

Muttleythefrog

sarahg1969 wrote: »

And we should also expect them to provide evidence that they are sick, rather than allowing them simply to languish on benefits for tens of years without any questions.

For something like ESA reassessment is regular. Claimant will at each reassessment as bare minimum be expected to complete ESA50... and then often other evidence will be necessary either from the claimant, previous assessments, GP or medical. I would assume that PIP which is to replace DLA will have regular assessment too. If the Op here passes the WCA and is awarded main phase ESA then the chances are she'll be reassessed within a year... and almost certainly within 2 if she remains on the benefit.

Thomas_The_Tank_Top

Just wanted Mumz to know that if she needs any help on writing her CV, pop in the Employment thread.

mazza111

sarahg1969 wrote: »

And we should also expect them to provide evidence that they are sick, rather than allowing them simply to languish on benefits for tens of years without any questions.

Isn't a doctor's fit note proof?

Isn't a medical examination proof?

Mumz is the only person I know of that didn't get a medical on Incapacity Benefit. Granted, they weren't as regular as the WCA is now, but there were still medicals in place. I had one myself after a few months of PND after my 2nd child.

If my dd's doctor has said she'll be unfit for work for 26 weeks, shouldn't that be telling DWP that her condition is severe?

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for WCA and/or medicals to receive benefits. But companies that twist and lie what you are telling them shouldn't be the ones to do it. The only need they have to do this is if they are target driven, which the government denies. All WCA must be honest and fair.

MUMZ2BEE

mazza111 wrote: »

Isn't a doctor's fit note proof?

Isn't a medical examination proof?

Mumz is the only person I know of that didn't get a medical on Incapacity Benefit. Granted, they weren't as regular as the WCA is now, but there were still medicals in place. I had one myself after a few months of PND after my 2nd child.

If my dd's doctor has said she'll be unfit for work for 26 weeks, shouldn't that be telling DWP that her condition is severe?

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for WCA and/or medicals to receive benefits. But companies that twist and lie what you are telling them shouldn't be the ones to do it. The only need they have to do this is if they are target driven, which the government denies. All WCA must be honest and fair.

I totally agree that medicals should be fair.

But the stories I have seen about ATOS deliberately given false information to the DWP after a WCA to get a person's benefit stopped is quite shocking.

Aparently I have been told my WCA is being carried out by a female GP!!

I just hope it goes smoothly with no problems, but I do have difficulty in explaining things, so hope I don't get tongue tied!!

mazza111

MUMZ2BEE wrote: »

I totally agree that medicals should be fair.

But the stories I have seen about ATOS deliberately given false information to the DWP after a WCA to get a person's benefit stopped is quite shocking.

Aparently I have been told my WCA is being carried out by a female GP!!

I just hope it goes smoothly with no problems, but I do have difficulty in explaining things, so hope I don't get tongue tied!!

If it's any consolation to you. Anytime I've been assessed by both work and dwp, it's been by a doctor and have always been treated well and fairly.

My dd was seen by a Health Care Professional and it all went to pot.

So in my experience, it went better with a doctor doing the assessment. It could just be that because of that experience, I find that docs are better.

Good luck

Dunroamin

MUMZ2BEE wrote: »

I totally agree that medicals should be fair.

But the stories I have seen about ATOS deliberately given false information to the DWP after a WCA to get a person's benefit stopped is quite shocking.

Aparently I have been told my WCA is being carried out by a female GP!!

I just hope it goes smoothly with no problems, but I do have difficulty in explaining things, so hope I don't get tongue tied!!

Yes, they actually let women practise medicine these days!:D