Been called for medical - not happy

earthbound_misfit

Tottyshouse wrote: »

Who mentioned being perfect? What was mentioned was taking responsibility for getting well. Seeing a psychiatrist isn't going to do it. Taking medication - though it may ease some of the symptoms isn't going to get rid of the root cause of many people's depression. It is up to the individual. What is annoying is how people whip out the term mental health at the drop of a hat as if that is an explanation in itself for a life on benefits. It isn't. I don't see myself as any stronger or more capable than anyone else. What I refuse to be however is a victim, that crawls back under my duvet every time something that takes me out of my comfort zone happens. You only get one life. You can spend it complaining how life has dealt you a bad hand or you can live it. And I speak as someone who came a hair's breadth from throwing mine away.

I agree broadly with what you're saying, but then I am someone who (usually) has a real will to recover, have a normal life/go back to work etc. This has actually been to my detriment at points as I get so frustrated it takes so long and also have taken jobs and been swifly 'let go' because in all honesty I wasn't able to cope at that point. But still, I do understand what you mean about the person needing to try/want to get better; it's an active process.
However, each person is different, and obviously conditions like depression are characterised by despair, apathy, a sense that nothing will go right however hard you try, a literal 'losing the will to live', as well as sleep disturbances and physical lethargy. Add to that anxiety which often occurs alongside depression and you have someone alternating between a frantic, worried state with physical symptoms and sensory overload, and a subdued, exhausted (after physical anxiety symptoms) and overwhelmed state. So symptoms themselves can prevent people being in a position to help themselves adequately. So services should be a bit more pro-active - instead of GP's writing sick notes for years, the person should be referred on to receive appropriate treatment! If it were a physical condition that got treated/untreated like this the country would be up in arms, but mental health patients are bottom of the pile as ever. It's hard enough, as I outlined previously, to get help when you are relatively articulate/have some social support/a good GP to chase referrals, but without these things it's no wonder so many are lost in the system. Apparently only 25% get treatment:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2012/jun/18/mental-illness-people-help?intcmp=239
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2160930/Mental-illness-accounts-half-ill-health--quarters-receive-NO-treatment.html

As for crawling back under the duvet - when you really feel you cannot go on a comment like that is the last thing you need. Already feeling like a failure, overwhlemed and exhausted with trying to keep going, day in, day out, people need understanding not criticism to feel worse! You know, sometimes I NEED to crawl under the duvet, rather than completey lose it and start to leave reality and get immersed in the horrors in my head (they think there is a PTSD element to my depression) and end up self-harming or having a meltdown/being dragged to A&E under section. Hiding under the duvet for a little bit and slowly learning to deal with the flashbacks and emotions is helpful. After a while I emerge from the duvet and quietly and reflectively get on with whatever I'm supposed to be doing. Working around my issues in this way is the only way I can manage at all. If there is actually a suitable job that I could fit around it I would gladly take it. (Suggestions welcome!)
I would also like to point out that I am not sitting around the house, bored and moping. For one thing, I live in a cheap and grotty place, which is actually quite nice now after a bit of tasteful decorating here and there, done on the cheap by me. Everything's on an ad-hoc basis, depending what I can mange at any given time. I also make my own clothes and other craft bit and bobs. I can't manage this stuff for 40hrs a week/like a job yet but do what I can and find it rewarding, and it defintely has therapeutic value.
Many people (most?) work simply for the money, it is a drain on their personal/emotional/coping resources to drag themselves in every day - rather than a vocation that just happens to pay them, or even gives them any satisfaction whatsoever. Clearly, someone already overwhelmed/with compromised 'coping' resources is going to find this much harder, many will find it impossible and benefit from time out to get a bit better/build up their 'personal' resources.
Unfortunately Atos/ESA do not assess appropritely, or give realistic timescales for recovery, or offer useful back-to-work guidance. Instead people find the safety net whipped from under them and end up in a stressful, counter-productive cycle of constantly having to prove they are unable to work, often made more so in cases of mental health by the anxiety this constant reassessment provokes. It's ridiculous. They should be able to assess you once, accurately, and then confer with your health professionals/GP etc to get a realistic prognosis and provide ongoing evidence, with a pressure on mental health services to actually treat you. Only when the expected recovery time has elapsed and treatment has been provided/is ongoing if applicable, should they reassess you.

ETA: This post is not necessarily sticking up for the OP, just a more general opinion.

krisskross

MUMZ2BEE wrote: »

Just spoken to adult mental health services and they have not had a referal from my doctor at all, so I am confused because my doctor told me on Friday that she had referred me and asked if I'd heard anything!!??

I feel quite angry at the doctor for telling porkies!!

These things don't happen overnight you know and quite frankly if you haven't needed this referral for years then a couple of weeks isn't going to make much difference. The referral may well be sitting in someone's in tray.

Doubt you will offered an appointment before your WCA appointment however much you pester.

earthbound_misfit

OP, you seem to be terrified at the thought of this assessment and losing your benefit. That is totally understandable, and many people here can sympathise.

What is concerning is that you do seem to be scraping the barrel for reasons to pass the assessment, or put it off. I've no doubt you do have problems and struggle, but ESA criteria is very strict and things have to be very severe and ongoing to be granted it.
The government are ***** for bringing these measures in when there is little work to be had, and the assessments are known for being seriously flawed. However that doesn't change the fact that many ill and disabled people simply don't qualify, even if it goes to tribunal. (My opinions on this in other posts!)

By all means, fight it if you think their decisions are unfair but I think you also need to prepare for the very realistic possiblity that you will soon be required to sign on and look for work. The majority of ESA claimants, placed in the "work-related activity group" of ESA, must attend work-focused interviews and potentially other back-to-work things like work experience (aka. "work for your benefits", so I'd be trying any route to proper employment asap to try to avoid this!) And that's those who manage to get ESA in the first place! If you end up having to claim jobseeker's allowance, it would be worth asking to speak to a disability employment adviser, but you probably won't get any leeway on what they make you apply for.

This is the unfortunate reality of the situation, so you (and me too at the moment) need to look at ways back into work that are manageable. You need to be one step ahead of the game. I am interested to know what you thought would happen with your health issues - did you think you'd get better in time? Or have you tried to get help before? Did you ever wonder how long you'd be off work, or just try not to think about it?

With regards treatment, the government started a new thing called "Improving Access to Psychological Therapies" (IAPT) so people can easily get CBT (cognitive behavoiral therapy) for thing like anxiety and depression. Whilst this may not be helpful for everyone, it does help many people so is worth asking about. Look in your doctor's surgery/ask as reception if they have any leaflets or information, or look online. You can self-refer to this and the waiting times are usually relatively short.
Good luck with it all...

MUMZ2BEE

I sent an email to ATOS earlier to ask for the WCA to be recorded; no surprise they have ignored the request!!

Waiting to hear from MIND to see if they have anyone who can go to medical with me as I wont go to things like that on my own.

As stated in a previous post, I've had mental health issues for years, and I was last seen by the mental health team back in 2010; doctor is going to chase up referal to find out what is going on and why no new appointment!!

LunaLady

So she isnt a liar then.

krisskross

MUMZ2BEE wrote: »

I sent an email to ATOS earlier to ask for the WCA to be recorded; no surprise they have ignored the request!!

Waiting to hear from MIND to see if they have anyone who can go to medical with me as I wont go to things like that on my own.

As stated in a previous post, I've had mental health issues for years, and I was last seen by the mental health team back in 2010; doctor is going to chase up referal to find out what is going on and why no new appointment!!

You seem to expect instant responses.

you were quite happy previously, like just last week, for a relative to go to the assessment with you now you want someone from MIND. Do you think having someone from a MH organisation is going to look better for you?

Tottyshouse

earthbound_misfit wrote: »

I agree broadly with what you're saying, but then I am someone who (usually) has a real will to recover, have a normal life/go back to work etc. This has actually been to my detriment at points as I get so frustrated it takes so long and also have taken jobs and been swifly 'let go' because in all honesty I wasn't able to cope at that point. But still, I do understand what you mean about the person needing to try/want to get better; it's an active process.
However, each person is different, and obviously conditions like depression are characterised by despair, apathy, a sense that nothing will go right however hard you try, a literal 'losing the will to live', as well as sleep disturbances and physical lethargy. Add to that anxiety which often occurs alongside depression and you have someone alternating between a frantic, worried state with physical symptoms and sensory overload, and a subdued, exhausted (after physical anxiety symptoms) and overwhelmed state. So symptoms themselves can prevent people being in a position to help themselves adequately. So services should be a bit more pro-active - instead of GP's writing sick notes for years, the person should be referred on to receive appropriate treatment! If it were a physical condition that got treated/untreated like this the country would be up in arms, but mental health patients are bottom of the pile as ever. It's hard enough, as I outlined previously, to get help when you are relatively articulate/have some social support/a good GP to chase referrals, but without these things it's no wonder so many are lost in the system. Apparently only 25% get treatment:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2012/jun/18/mental-illness-people-help?intcmp=239
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2160930/Mental-illness-accounts-half-ill-health--quarters-receive-NO-treatment.html

As for crawling back under the duvet - when you really feel you cannot go on a comment like that is the last thing you need. Already feeling like a failure, overwhlemed and exhausted with trying to keep going, day in, day out, people need understanding not criticism to feel worse! You know, sometimes I NEED to crawl under the duvet, rather than completey lose it and start to leave reality and get immersed in the horrors in my head (they think there is a PTSD element to my depression) and end up self-harming or having a meltdown/being dragged to A&E under section. Hiding under the duvet for a little bit and slowly learning to deal with the flashbacks and emotions is helpful. After a while I emerge from the duvet and quietly and reflectively get on with whatever I'm supposed to be doing. Working around my issues in this way is the only way I can manage at all. If there is actually a suitable job that I could fit around it I would gladly take it. (Suggestions welcome!)
I would also like to point out that I am not sitting around the house, bored and moping. For one thing, I live in a cheap and grotty place, which is actually quite nice now after a bit of tasteful decorating here and there, done on the cheap by me. Everything's on an ad-hoc basis, depending what I can mange at any given time. I also make my own clothes and other craft bit and bobs. I can't manage this stuff for 40hrs a week/like a job yet but do what I can and find it rewarding, and it defintely has therapeutic value.
Many people (most?) work simply for the money, it is a drain on their personal/emotional/coping resources to drag themselves in every day - rather than a vocation that just happens to pay them, or even gives them any satisfaction whatsoever. Clearly, someone already overwhelmed/with compromised 'coping' resources is going to find this much harder, many will find it impossible and benefit from time out to get a bit better/build up their 'personal' resources.
Unfortunately Atos/ESA do not assess appropritely, or give realistic timescales for recovery, or offer useful back-to-work guidance. Instead people find the safety net whipped from under them and end up in a stressful, counter-productive cycle of constantly having to prove they are unable to work, often made more so in cases of mental health by the anxiety this constant reassessment provokes. It's ridiculous. They should be able to assess you once, accurately, and then confer with your health professionals/GP etc to get a realistic prognosis and provide ongoing evidence, with a pressure on mental health services to actually treat you. Only when the expected recovery time has elapsed and treatment has been provided/is ongoing if applicable, should they reassess you.

ETA: This post is not necessarily sticking up for the OP, just a more general opinion.

I am more than aware of how debilitating mental health problems can be. I have met many many people suffering with mental health issues when I was hospitalised, and when I was attending my psychiatric out patient sessions at my local mental health unit. However there is no getting away from the fact as there is very often no physical sign of it - it is incredibly easy to fake. It is without a doubt used by many people as an excuse not to get on with life. Many of these people do not seek intervention from mental health providers because there really is no need -the over stretched GP signs their sick note and they are perfectly happy with this level of "support". Where the issue comes is when they are called in for a medical, and suddenly it's all hands on deck to get referred to mental health providers - which will no doubt help their case. This does nothing to dispel the idea that there are countless people sitting on disability benefits who actually have no or at the very least very mild depression which absolutely would not prevent them from working. Unfortunately it is too easy for people to climb back under their duvet today. Do not make the mistake of thinking because I was able to work my depression must have been "less" than anyone's who gives up and climbs back under their duvet. Every night I gave myself the option of hanging myself the next day and for weeks I lived with the cord of my dressing gown by my bed so it was close at hand if I could not get up. I lived a lie throughout the whole period. I forced myself to wash because my last shred of dignity wouldn't allow myself to be dirty in front of others - but at home I didn't eat, I didn't sleep. I ended up at just over 5 stone. I would most definitely have been signed off work had I requested it. But then I would have had another 9-10 hours a day to sit at home, feeling exactly the same. In all honesty I probably wouldn't be here if I hadn't kept a grip on life by going to work. There is absolutely not enough targeted, active and productive support for people with severe mental health issues. Many are given medication and left to cope with no plan to get back into society -which ultimately has to be everyone's goal - otherwise what is the point in being here? What doesn't help is the label of "mental health" being used by many people to justify sitting bakc and letting the state take care of them for a lifetime. If you can muster the strength to complain about Atos, surely you can muster the strength to complain about a lack of mental health support over years??

Muttleythefrog

Tottyshouse wrote: »

If you can muster the strength to complain about Atos, surely you can muster the strength to complain about a lack of mental health support over years??

Agree with a lot of what you're saying... in fact my experience of work sounds very similar... although I never had my weight drop that low due to lack of eating. I could have also given up and gone to the doctor and tried life on benefits but I resisted for a long time. Unfortunately I did resist... and the result is I've constructed much deeper problems in order to persist with the illusion of coping... working became simply an environment which forced me into ever more extreme ways to cope... so I became incredibly socially withdrawn etc... but had to present as being the opposite (Perhaps the source of a diagnosis of covert SPD). But I'm surprised you seem to be missing the mark of understanding the lack of ambition and desire to move forward... yet these are effectively often defining of such illnesses. If there's anything that characterises my life it is the outrageous amount of face value contradictions. I was able to run businesses, live abroad where I couldn't speak more than a hand full of words of the local lingo, I was even able to assist in things like the creation of the Wild Mammals Protection Bill alongside politicians I would classify as associates... yet throughout these times I was barely able to change my pants or brush my teeth.... makes no sense. I'm able to construct posts like this yet while being able to do this I've found completing things like benefit forms incredibly challenging and crippling.

My benefits are probably the most important thing to my survival... so it isn't really any surprise that people like me get appear very enthusiastic about getting them...I certainly became (and perhaps remain) obsessive about such... it's only really by obsessing about something that I will be able to engage it sufficiently. My life is about anxiety management... I do things when the anxiety associated with not doing them becomes intolerable... I'm on MSE to manage my anxieties associated with benefits (I'm not here to help other benefit claimants as it might appear.. that's a consequence). Much of my anxieties are tied up with benefits.. I'm not interested in getting better... I approached the NHS to get my benefits. To an outsider that might sound ridiculous... why would someone not want to get better... why would someone want to decay in obscurity... well... because they're different... because they can't see the wood for the trees. I was asked at the weekend what work do I want to do... what would I have a passion about doing... and there was no answer... the person who asked the question couldn't understand this... they're ambitious and healthy... they expect others to think like them... they couldn't understand why I would have no desire to work at all... and seemed remarkably bankrupt when it came to thinking forward or plotting change.

Regarding the Op.. there's no doubt in my mind that they're using anxiety management techniques that require others to give feedback and reassurance. To an outsider of course it looks erratic and bizarre, desperate, clutching at straws and highly strung.. and sometimes contradictory. But these are very common expectations in the area we're discussing. You aptly describe the problems with MH services... they often seem misdirected.. fortunately for me I never really went to the NHS for treatment or to change my life (except of course regarding work situation)... had I done then I would have felt exceptionally shortchanged.. instead I just felt great frustration and attack on my integrity.

Muttleythefrog

krisskross wrote: »

You seem to expect instant responses.

you were quite happy previously, like just last week, for a relative to go to the assessment with you now you want someone from MIND. Do you think having someone from a MH organisation is going to look better for you?

It's called anxiety... it really is a very simple concept to understand. Rather than putting obstacles in the way (which could be the actual consequence) they're trying to reduce anxiety by doing things they think will achieve it. An example of what I did in the situation the Op is... is that I made a FOI request regarding the HCP who would conduct my medical. As it turns out the HCP wasn't the same as reported which caused me some serious issues at the medical and may indeed have caused the exceptional circs descriptor to be triggered regarding risk to others.

Poppie68

MUMZ2BEE wrote: »

I sent an email to ATOS earlier to ask for the WCA to be recorded; no surprise they have ignored the request!!

Waiting to hear from MIND to see if they have anyone who can go to medical with me as I wont go to things like that on my own.

As stated in a previous post, I've had mental health issues for years, and I was last seen by the mental health team back in 2010; doctor is going to chase up referal to find out what is going on and why no new appointment!!

You said the GP sent the referral last friday, todays Tuesday it is most probably waiting to be processed like dozens of others. Chances are you will wait a least for a couple of weeks for an appointment unless your GP has sent an 'urgent referral' but even then you are looking at about 2 weeks.