Been called for medical - not happy

PippaGirl_2

They're commiting fraud though mazza, money under mattress is capital. If they bought some 22 carat gold chains, that would be fine.

mazza111

I know Pippa but as a sheltered housing officer, I could not breach that trust. The only thing I could do was try to encourage them to be secure. Many of them were happy to buy a safe and have it installed. Although many of them told me to f off :rotfl:They used to sit with their front doors open thinking that they were safe and secure because there was a buzzer entry system, although it's more secure, it's also easy to get into if you go in with someone else. We didn't have any robberies, but the S.H complex in the next town was hit, hence why we had to encourage them as much as possible.

earthbound_misfit

PippaGirl wrote: »

They would wrongly assume that because they felt suicidal when depressed that they were as severely depressed as someone totally incapacitated by their depression who is unable to summon the motivation to help themselves.

That's an interesting point. Now you mention it, I have had times in the past where I was frequently suicidal but able to hold down a job (only for a few months at a time, but still). Although I was incredibly 'unstable' I somehow manage to work and rush out to find a new job whenever I was fired/'let go' because of my problems (sooo much easier to get jobs back then!) At other times (mainly since breakdown >two years ago) I have been a lot more 'stable' and far less dangerously suicidal, but overall have been a lot more impaired.
I've found the time I've had off work incredibly helpful in terms of being able to actually face my problems and start to sort them out, rather than using up all my energy trying to hold down a job, breaking down and getting fired, the cycle starts again... I've also had time to pursue rewarding activities than look a likely route to self-employment (which may be all I'm actually able to do for quite a while, with the flexibility it offers...)

I've also found I can manage day-to-day much better by learning over time how to work around my problems (eg. feel horrific when I wake up but much better by evening, so get stuff done later on) in a way that can rarely work if you include employment in the equation. Very flexible employment or self employment are the only way to work around these issues, but the government are changing tax credits and employment law to make this far more difficult.

I think there's a massive issue here that the government are well aware of. In short, the way the want the country to go (rich richer, plebs working for them, surplus labour force to call on when needed, etc) means many people will be so unhappy and disatisfied with their lives that they would technically fit the criteria for mild-moderate depression or anxiety.
This could be said to have happened to some extent already. Take an example, a young single mother, perhaps with a bad start in life from material deprivation or an abusive/borderline abusive upbringing, poor educational achievement and so forth. Signed of (low-paid, low interest, high-stress) work, meeting the criteria for moderate depression and anxiety. One medical for benefits which she then receives for 10+ years until being rudely awakened by ESA/Atos (note: I am not in favour of this overly harsh system either!).
What has helped her over the years? Some comfort in her children? Having a stable, relatively stress-free income? (though having to count the pennies) NHS therapy could certainly help with any issues stemming from abuse, but it can only do so much - can it 'train' people to be happy or cope living in pitiful circumstances?

It all comes back to wealth distribution and the government actually giving a damn about the welfare of it's citizens. Fair wages and employment rights so people are able to participate/contribute/have some pride in their lives. Treating mental health problems that require it in a timely and effective manner, and social policies that foster good mental health and inclusion generally. (And no, Mr Cameron, your riduculous 'happiness index' does not count, but feel free to emigrate to Bhutan if they'll have you...)

Sorry for going a bit off-tanget, was just thinking about this a lot today...

earthbound_misfit

mazza111 wrote: »

I know of a few pensioners who are sitting with wads of money under their mattresses so not to have too much in the bank so they can get benefits, I tried to encourage them to bank it, but to no avail, so the next best thing was to get them to install a safe in their homes as under the mattress was just not a good idea!

This is benefit fraud! Report it! Even if they don't fit the young, chav scrounger stereotype!

I may overtake the £6000 savings limit next year, if this happens I will declare it/stop claiming, not withdraw wads of cash to stick under the mattress!! Because I am thankful to the system that has supported me and see this benefit fraud as stemming from the same greed that leads to tax evasion! Someone needs to set the cabinet an example :rotfl:

~Chameleon~

earthbound_misfit wrote: »

That's an interesting point. Now you mention it, I have had times in the past where I was frequently suicidal but able to hold down a job (only for a few months at a time, but still). Although I was incredibly 'unstable' I somehow manage to work and rush out to find a new job whenever I was fired/'let go' because of my problems (sooo much easier to get jobs back then!) At other times (mainly since breakdown >two years ago) I have been a lot more 'stable' and far less dangerously suicidal, but overall have been a lot more impaired.
I've found the time I've had off work incredibly helpful in terms of being able to actually face my problems and start to sort them out, rather than using up all my energy trying to hold down a job, breaking down and getting fired, the cycle starts again... I've also had time to pursue rewarding activities than look a likely route to self-employment (which may be all I'm actually able to do for quite a while, with the flexibility it offers...)

I've also found I can manage day-to-day much better by learning over time how to work around my problems (eg. feel horrific when I wake up but much better by evening, so get stuff done later on) in a way that can rarely work if you include employment in the equation. Very flexible employment or self employment are the only way to work around these issues, but the government are changing tax credits and employment law to make this far more difficult.

I can truly identify with all you've written above and I'm in an incredibly similar situation. I've actually returned to education to re-train for a completely different career in an area I've developed a huge interest in over the last couple of years. Self-employment/freelance work will be my way forward too.

mazza111

earthbound_misfit wrote: »

This is benefit fraud! Report it! Even if they don't fit the young, chav scrounger stereotype!

I may overtake the £6000 savings limit next year, if this happens I will declare it/stop claiming, not withdraw wads of cash to stick under the mattress!! Because I am thankful to the system that has supported me and see this benefit fraud as stemming from the same greed that leads to tax evasion! Someone needs to set the cabinet an example :rotfl:

I'm not in that job now thankfully and many of them have since passed away. The sheltered housing complex has been knocked down and the ones that are still alive have moved into Independent living (with assistance) flats. I got the choice of a wee pay off or move down to support workers wages was a no brainer really. Of course, there were a lot more jobs about then than there is now So I can happily say I don't know of any of their details to report them for benefit fraud

earthbound_misfit

krisskross wrote: »

So are you saying that people are motivated to claim money and actually put a great deal of effort into getting what they see as their entitlement but not motivated to seeking treatment that could help them get better?

Seems strange that mentally ill people can choose their areas of motivation.

A job is far harder than claiming sickness benefits, even on the ESA merry-go-round with all the stress/uncertainty that entails. The DWP don't mind if you're in tears when you speak to them, whereas an employer generally does.
People do find the process of claiming draining and detrimental to their health, but you can't be 'sacked' from claiming like you can with a job.

earthbound_misfit

Tottyshouse wrote: »

If you have an ailment where you can (and many others do) take steps to live with and function with then I think it is right that a time limit is put on a claim.

It would have to take into account actual recovery times and access to treatment though. Eg. although I may have developed personal insight which will help in the long run, I have essentially been 'waiting' on ESA for treatment for over two years now.
So time limits would need to be individial and thus better achieved by simply reassessing people at various points with appropriate treatment and back-to-work support. Sort of like the plans for ESA that were lost amonst the overly harsh medicals, too frequent reassements, and an utter lack of appropriate treatment or support.

krisskross

earthbound_misfit wrote: »

A job is far harder than claiming sickness benefits, even on the ESA merry-go-round with all the stress/uncertainty that entails. The DWP don't mind if you're in tears when you speak to them, whereas an employer generally does.
People do find the process of claiming draining and detrimental to their health, but you can't be 'sacked' from claiming like you can with a job.

Is this therefore a valid reason for staying on benefits for decades?

My job was incredibly stressful as well as physically demanding. I was reduced to tears of frustration, sorrow,anger,exhaustion many times. Should I have given up and gone the benefit route?

earthbound_misfit

krisskross wrote: »

Is this therefore a valid reason for staying on benefits for decades?

Is what a valid reason? The fact that it's easier? If someone is too ill to work then obviously the route to keeping body and soul together should be easier than work, ie. state support.
But people with treatable conditions should actually be able to access the treatment they need to recover. Benefits should be a safety net while this happens. And for people who won't recover but will recover enough to do limited/flexible work, there should be appropriate support, training schemes, and employment opportunities. Otherwise they will just be on a different benefit forever.

krisskross wrote: »

My job was incredibly stressful as well as physically demanding. I was reduced to tears of frustration, sorrow,anger,exhaustion many times. Should I have given up and gone the benefit route?

No job conditions should be horrible enough to leave someone feeling like that. If they are it should be a damn sight better paid so you only had to endure it part-time for the same money! It's the bigger system, we have it all wrong, what different people's work is 'worth' in wages...