Outside advice... is this fair

jen007

Hi guys. I'm looking for some impartial people to tell me if my arrangement with my child's father (NRP) is fair. Sorry is this is long winded.

My son is 7 years old and his Dad at the beginning wasn't great, but now he has a new partner and settled down he's began to be a great dad and has even stuck to our CSA agreed (but private arrangement.... as CSA kept mucking about with transfer of funds)

I've been asking him for around a year and a half now if we can change access to every second weekend, as I feel i'm missing out on special time with my son and he with his school friends.

NFP lives a 25 mins drive away... an hour and a half via public travel and walking so NFP does not see his son during the week.
I've started to feel that my son's behaviour, which at times is very testing is down to him not having special time with me at the weekends and his friends.
He's missed out on a few parties and cool days out with his friends as he's always at his dads Friday - Sunday.
NFP has admitted our son doesn't get out to play at the weekends, and only has 1 friend who goes to his Dads every second weekend). I hate the thought of my son being stuck in at the weekend, which happens a lot if you ask him 'what did you do at your dads?'

I asked NFP a few weeks ago, with support of my own step mother if we can change it, up until that week I was met with 'well you get to see him 5 days a week' (I do understand this, but I soon I will be in F/T work until 6pm Mon - Fri) He and his fiance agreed to this on the pretence that NFP picks up on Friday and I collect our son from his NFP on Sunday.


Last week whilst I was out I called him to ask about the arrangements for that day, as he had not yet called me to tell me. (This is something I really dislike doing... chasing him up so he can see his son) I was met with a torrent of shouting and emotional blackmail from both him and his fiance.... I feel they done this to me as they knew I was on my own and thought i'd give in to the pressure.

I came home and myself and my partner talked and came up with the following arrangement but i'd like to know if any impartial people think this is fair:

NFP can have son Fri - Sun 3 weeks out of 4.
NFP must pick up and return son
NFP must call on a Thursday at the latest, if he does not call I will assume NFP does not want our son that weekend.
If RP has a family thing on a weekend NFP has him, then I can have him for that time, but sacrifice my 1 weekend.
If son has a party on weekend NFP has him, he must take him to it, regardless of location.


Is that fair?

I'd also like to say that NFP said that if he was to pick up and drop off he would reduce our child's maintenance to suit this. But the CSA already worked this out at the rate he stays with him every weekend Fri - Sun, so am I right in saying he shouldn't do this?

(If i'm right in my thinking, he should actually increase because our son will be with me now 1 weekend out of 4.)
I'm not going to ask for this increase if I am, but i'd like to know that he can't cut it in half because he's picking up and dropping off.






Thanks for any replies guys

daska

OK, standard contact practice is alternate weekends/ xmas/ easter with set weeks during the holidays. That is then amended to cope with excessive travel but TBH 25 minutes by car isn't considered excessive, and depending on bedtime I can't see any reason why he wouldn't be able to see his son during the week.

You are being more than fair so I suggest you go back to him and make him a counter offer of alternate weekends and when he rages at you drop it down to one in three and if he doesn't get the hint then drop your offer down to 1 in 4 and make him make the running. Go see a solicitor to confirm the basic rule of thumb (as above) and put it in writing. You have every right to know in advance whether contact is on or off, you are not there for his convenience. Make a set time for collection and then, if he doesn't inform you of any change/ lateness (within reason obviously), feel free to scarper. Your son needs to develop relationships with his peers and he needs time to enjoy family life with you. At the moment you are just a hotel during the week. And the NRP is usually responsible for collection and return, you shouldn't be trying to mollify him into a slightly less unfair arrangement by being even more unfair on yourself.

Re the maintenance, it's probably more the case that he knows his CSA payments will INCREASE if the number of overnight stays reduces.

(BTW it's usually NRP)

fannyanna

jen007 wrote: »

NFP can have son Fri - Sun 3 weeks out of 4. It seems reasonable to me that you ask to spend a weekend with your child.
NFP must pick up and return son What's the current arrangement? If you currently share the travel and are now proposing not to do any I think you risk coming across as unreasonable.
NFP must call on a Thursday at the latest, if he does not call I will assume NFP does not want our son that weekend. Why does he need to call if it's already pre-planned? I don't think this is necessary.
If RP has a family thing on a weekend NFP has him, then I can have him for that time, but sacrifice my 1 weekend. Ultimately this is all about being flexible with each other. As long as you're prepared to do the same thing I don't see why this should be a problem.
If son has a party on weekend NFP has him, he must take him to it, regardless of location. I think it's unreasonable of you to dictate what the ex should do on his weekends. Ultimately it would be nice for the child to attend friends parties and I'm sure in the majority of cases the ex would facilitate this. But sometimes life gets in the way and I don't think it's your place to dictate how these weekends are spent.

My thoughts are above in blue.

jen007

fannyanna wrote: »

My thoughts are above in blue.

The current arrangement is intertwined with two of your thoughts.

NRP is supposed to call me during the week to tell me his arrangements for the weekend. He never calls and I have spoken to him about this, if gets good for 2/3 weeks then back to leaving me to chase him on a Friday.
I usually end up dropping off to his house (Just under 3 hours travel, if you include myself returning to my home) and I pick up at the nearest train station (40 mins including return travel). We both use public transport, I don't know why I mentioned about driving as neither of us do it.

In total the cost of this is almost half of the maintenance he provides (£100.70)
(You can see my gripe of having to use our sons maintenance for NRP to see his son)

NRP has agreed to the family outings/things already, but just wanted to ensure other impartial people think this is fair.

I forgot to add that if son does have a party on a weekend his dad has him, then if he can't take him he needs to let me have him that day so I can take him.

jen007

daska wrote: »

OK, standard contact practice is alternate weekends, xmas, easter with set weeks during the holidays......

Our son's bedtime is 7:30 on a Sunday and 8 pm a weekday (later on a friday and saturday... generally when he gets tired. He's quite good at not taking the wee out of it and enjoys his bedtime routines)
He said okay to alternate weekend, when I approached him with support from my step mother, then after one weekend with me, when I chased him up on the friday he was supposed to be taking him he bombarded me on the phone, both him and his fiance.
He then rejected the alternate weekends, with him picking up and me collecting off and told me he had his fiances father speak to a solicitor and was told that every weekend is his 'parental right'. I was also met with the 'You get him 5 days a week' (which yes he's right but once i'm working until 6 at night, that is going to be such a pants relationship with my son with a routine of dinner, bath and bed.)

lazer

jen007 wrote: »

Our son's bedtime is 7:30 on a Sunday and 8 pm a weekday (later on a friday and saturday... generally when he gets tired. He's quite good at not taking the wee out of it and enjoys his bedtime routines)
He said okay to alternate weekend, when I approached him with support from my step mother, then after one weekend with me, when I chased him up on the friday he was supposed to be taking him he bombarded me on the phone, both him and his fiance.
He then rejected the alternate weekends, with him picking up and me collecting off and told me he had his fiances father speak to a solicitor and was told that every weekend is his 'parental right'. I was also met with the 'You get him 5 days a week' (which yes he's right but once i'm working until 6 at night, that is going to be such a pants relationship with my son with a routine of dinner, bath and bed.)

You could give the father the weekdays then and you could have the weekends if you think it is better?

Who has your son for holidays - half term, easter, Christmas etc.

I firmly believe the cost of NRP access should be half and half or alternatively, if one parent has moved a substantial distance away they should then be responsible for the cost.

jen007

lazer wrote: »

You could give the father the weekdays then and you could have the weekends if you think it is better?

Who has your son for holidays - half term, easter, Christmas etc.

I firmly believe the cost of NRP access should be half and half or alternatively, if one parent has moved a substantial distance away they should then be responsible for the cost.

I'm extremely unwilling to not have my son full time, he's settled where he is, in a school he loves. If he lived with his dad 5 days a week, that would all have to change.

For the holidays we share them for instance NRP will have our son for the October week this year, we alternate christmas and easter. This year is NRP Xmas.

daska

jen007 wrote: »

Our son's bedtime is 7:30 on a Sunday and 8 pm a weekday (later on a friday and saturday... generally when he gets tired. He's quite good at not taking the wee out of it and enjoys his bedtime routines)
He said okay to alternate weekend, when I approached him with support from my step mother, then after one weekend with me, when I chased him up on the friday he was supposed to be taking him he bombarded me on the phone, both him and his fiance.
He then rejected the alternate weekends, with him picking up and me collecting off and told me he had his fiances father speak to a solicitor and was told that every weekend is his 'parental right'. I was also met with the 'You get him 5 days a week' (which yes he's right but once i'm working until 6 at night, that is going to be such a pants relationship with my son with a routine of dinner, bath and bed.)

He is talking complete bull. No solicitor would tell him he was legally entitled to every weekend - unless this is under an existing court order (in which case I'd expect you to be far better informed than you appear to be). You really need to take some legal advice if you are inclined to believe him even for a nanosecond. Also he has it backwards about the rights: the children have rights, the parents have responsibilities. They are not the same.

fannyanna

jen007 wrote: »

NRP is supposed to call me during the week to tell me his arrangements for the weekend. He never calls and I have spoken to him about this, if gets good for 2/3 weeks then back to leaving me to chase him on a Friday.

Sorry I'm probably being a bit slow on the uptake here but what do you mean? Confirmation that he is having your Son or specifics on what he is planning to do with your Son for the weekend?

jen007 wrote: »

I usually end up dropping off to his house (Just under 3 hours travel, if you include myself returning to my home) and I pick up at the nearest train station (40 mins including return travel). We both use public transport, I don't know why I mentioned about driving as neither of us do it.

So you currently do most of the travelling then because you take him to your ex (door to door) but your ex only brings him back to your local train station?

I disagree that the ex should do all the travelling (but I know others will disagree with me on this point ) but at the same time it's unfair that you're having to do the majority of the travelling. I think your ex should be returning your Son to your door and not just dropping him at the station. Alternatively you should just drop him at the station rather than taking him to the exes door. Obviously when I say dropping him off at the station I mean you meeting the ex there and handing your Son over (and vice versa) lol.

jen007 wrote: »

In total the cost of this is almost half of the maintenance he provides (£100.70)
(You can see my gripe of having to use our sons maintenance for NRP to see his son)

I understand this point completely. But I can also see this from the other side. Your ex would have to pay even more if he were to do all the travelling and that would be on top of the child maintenance he pays. So it's not unreasonable of him to apply for a variation in child maintenance. But as you said you could also get the maintenance changed because he'd be spending less time at the exes house.

jen007 wrote: »

I forgot to add that if son does have a party on a weekend his dad has him, then if he can't take him he needs to let me have him that day so I can take him.

I think this is unreasonable. At that age there is a birthday party nearly every weekend. Your ex would never see his Son.

lazer

jen007 wrote: »

I'm extremely unwilling to not have my son full time, he's settled where he is, in a school he loves. If he lived with his dad 5 days a week, that would all have to change.

For the holidays we share them for instance NRP will have our son for the October week this year, we alternate christmas and easter. This year is NRP Xmas.

What if dad was willing to move to be near the school - so nothing would change for your son regarding schools friends etc, would you then be willing to swap?

No access arrangements can ever be completley fair as one parent always misses out either on quality time at weekends, holidays etc, or on the daily activities such as doing homewrok, puttign them to bed etc.

Gigglepig

If you don't want to cope with constant changes I think it is fair enough to draw up a schedule at the beginning of the school year that you both need to stick to. If if he can't make "his" days it it is not your problem, up to him to make the arrangements to cover (childcare, transport). Same for you.

What about offering every second weekend, and that you alternate who does the transport?

In addition, offer him to pick up son after school one weekday afternoon/evening and deliver him to you - it is down to him whether he'll change his work arrangements and get a driving license/car to make it possible!

Alternate/ split Christmas & school holidays.