Opinions Please - Work Issue.

GobbledyGook

Even though I have children I don't think that having kids should give you any automatic priority to certain holidays. If your colleagues are happy to give preference then that's fine, but if not if should be a fair system like a one on, one off rota.

At my grandmother's work they used to have a system where people who didn't have young children couldn't have any school holidays off. As I worked in schools that meant that for the last years of their working lives I couldn't have a holiday with the people who were, effectively, my parents because they didn't have young children. It also meant that despite working just as hard as the parents my Nana could never have a holiday in July or August which is not fair imo.

Having children is a choice and it shouldn't be a choice that negatively impacts on your work colleagues imo. Holidays and early finishes for Christmas should be a fair set up and then it's up to individual staff if they want to step aside to allow those with young children to have preferential treatment. It shouldn't be an expectation.

dizziblonde

CL wrote: »

I had my first child at 30 and for the 10 years prior to that I always offered to work over the Christmas period to allow those with kids to have it off. Now I have a toddler I'd like to be able to have Christmas off if possible.

For those who are childfree (which I find admirable as there are some very good reasons for it, it just wasn't for me), even if you have no children, you were obviously children yourselves at one point and should remember how magical christmas feels to a child and spending it with their parents instead of a childminder is important.

And when your children get jobs of their own and can't come to see you every single Christmas as they're required to work Christmas Eve so can't get a train (or in our case usually an internal flight) - I'm sure you'll still be keeping this goey-eyed romanticised view of the only people with any rights over holidays being those with young kids.

maman

I'd be inclined to be pleased that you have the working environment that allows for flexi time and just make sure it's distributed fairly. Whether the person uses it to go to Argos, go to the nursery, to the dentist or anything else is their business.

Personally I'd hate to have had concessions/assumptions made for me when my children were young. I did my job and held my own with others in the team based on my skills and qualifications not on my personal circumstances. When I became a manager myself I'd be the first to tell anyone to take the first dental appointmnet offered if it was an emergency and send them home if a loved one (not necessarily a child) was suddenly taken ill or had an accident. I was not happy with anyone who stayed home to look after children with a cold or nurse a hangover!! That's your personal life taking over.

Northern_Princess

I don't know how to do the multi quote thing, so apologies in advance.

Our holiday year runs from April to March. We all have a meeting in March to discuss annual leave and Department cover ie who would like what leave. Leave is never an issue as we say at this meeting who would prefer to be off when over summer. I have never known anyone in our Department not to get the leave they request.

We can request flexi the day before or if there is phone cover on the day. Our core hours are 10 until 3.30. If there is phone cover which is agreed between ourselves we can come in late in the morning or leave early if you have the time to take. Again this is never an issue as we all cover each other if someone wants to go early etc. We're all a laid back bunch normally. We also have monthly team meetings where we discuss leave and flexi if anyone knows they will need to take it in future.

There is no question of anyone in our work place being treated differently from another. Everyone is treated the same.

As I said earlier we take it in turns to have Christmas Eve off. The woman in question had last year off, I chose to work it to let someone with kids have it off. I am choosing to work it this year too even though the girl that had last year off offered to work it for me.The woman in question needs to work this year as she had last year off, but now she's not happy one girl has had 2 Christmas Eve's off. She has also today made a huge fuss wanting the October week off knowing there's already 3 of us off (discussed at the meeting last month when she was fine with it then). I offered to swap my holidays for October so she can have it off but no, she thinks one of the girls with kids should do it. Now that is unreasonable when I have offered to move my leave to accommodate her.

I have sat for the last hour of my day listening to why 'people with young kids need to get a grip'. None of the girls with kids ask for special treatment, so I really don't understand where this has come from. I have explained to her it was my choice to work and I wasn't asked which was met with a roll of her eyes. On leaving I did say if she's not happy she should raise it with the Team Leader and to let me know about October so I can change my hotel dates. I can't do right for doing wrong!

themull1

In our office, people are never nice to people with small children when it comes to time off, if too many people want christmas eve afternoon for example, names get picked out of the hat - regardless of what family you have.

i changed my working pattern to full time term time, so i'm off during all the school holidays - best thing i ever did!! I just shout 'so long suckers' as i walk out the door....(i don't really!!)

GobbledyGook

She sounds like she's just got a bee in her bonnet over it. Perhaps it's because it sounds like there has been an automatic assumption that the girl who was off last year is off again this year. Perhaps it would have been better to have a names in hat draw for this year rather than one person just getting two in a row off (although if this is the girls actual year off then perhaps that should have been done last year).

CL

dizziblonde wrote: »

And when your children get jobs of their own and can't come to see you every single Christmas as they're required to work Christmas Eve so can't get a train (or in our case usually an internal flight) - I'm sure you'll still be keeping this goey-eyed romanticised view of the only people with any rights over holidays being those with young kids.

When my children are grown up I will be glad if they are kind thoughtful people who would allow someone with a small child to have Christmas off over them and I'll see them the week after.

I honestly think I would be fine with it.

LOL it's the first time I've been accused of "romanticising"! My friends would laugh their heads off as I'm definitely not the type.

euronorris

Northern_Princess wrote: »

As I said earlier we take it in turns to have Christmas Eve off. The woman in question had last year off, I chose to work it to let someone with kids have it off. I am choosing to work it this year too even though the girl that had last year off offered to work it for me.The woman in question needs to work this year as she had last year off, but now she's not happy one girl has had 2 Christmas Eve's off. She has also today made a huge fuss wanting the October week off knowing there's already 3 of us off (discussed at the meeting last month when she was fine with it then). I offered to swap my holidays for October so she can have it off but no, she thinks one of the girls with kids should do it. Now that is unreasonable when I have offered to move my leave to accommodate her.

I think the part I have highlighted as kicked this off. You have decided to work 2 years in a row, which you are perfectly entitled to do, but the opportunity for someone else to have that time off wasn't offered to everyone it seems. It was automatically passed to the woman with young children, which I agree isn't very fair.

The rest sounds like bitterness sparked by the above. It will also explain why she won't take your offer to swap your October holidays with her. If one of them gets preferential treatment, then she wants it to, to keep things equal in her eyes.

TBH, your team leader could've avoided all this if he/she had offered the 'spare' (for want of a better word) christmas eve to all those who are due to work on a first come first served basis.

Fire_Fox

floss2 wrote: »

OP
Generally, people don't organise their lunch-times a week ahead - unless you are a super busy incredibly organised person or there is a fixed rota which the OP said there isn't.

I think it is perfectly reasonable to ask a week in advance to use flexi time (that these parents have already worked) to extend their lunches because their small children are starting a different nursery session. It's not like they are asking for the extended time every day until the children start school for heavens sake!

Also, why should someone be penalised for having children, when things like Christmas arrangements come up? If there is a system in place (which I understood there to be, of alternating 50% of the team taking their flexi time on Christmas Eve) why should one of those mum's not be able to take her once-every-two-years opportunity to take the time off? Isn't that what the flexi-time thing is all about - flexible working times??

And finally - they didn't expect to get the time off because they are parents. They asked if their colleagues would mind - there is a huge difference.

I guess you are the sort of person who would whinge if say one of your colleagues had to take a 2 hour lunch for a dental appointment or needed to finish early or start late to take an elderly relative to the Drs because they are getting something extra that you aren't......All I can say is that I'm glad I don't work in your office.

Aren't they asking for extended time every day? I didn't see it specified how often the extended lunches are which is why I asked instead of assuming. Who on earth said anything about penalising parents? If you are getting preferential access to extended lunches year round even if once a week that is fifty two times a year. Why should they then get preferential treatment for Christmas eve as well?

Plenty of people arrange to meet a friend for lunch a week or two ahead, plan a shopping trip (eg. Argos as per the OP) when they next get paid, book an hairdressers appointment or sight test more than a week in advance. Some like to laze about in the staff room at lunchtime, others like to get off site.

You could guess or you could read what I actually posted. "I am child free by choice and object to people with small children getting or expecting special treatment, other than of course if their child is ill or parents evening/ sports day/ school play." Anyone with any common sense can see where a dental appointment or needed to finish early to take an elderly relative to the doctors fits into that. I also said getting OR expecting.

CL wrote: »

I had my first child at 30 and for the 10 years prior to that I always offered to work over the Christmas period to allow those with kids to have it off. Now I have a toddler I'd like to be able to have Christmas off if possible.

For those who are childfree (which I find admirable as there are some very good reasons for it, it just wasn't for me), even if you have no children, you were obviously children yourselves at one point and should remember how magical christmas feels to a child and spending it with their parents instead of a childminder is important.

So it's more important for a child to spend a half day on Christmas eve (NOT day) with their parents than someone else in the company being able to see their family at all? Really?? Again, not everyone drives, many child free singletons cannot afford to run a car. It's horrible having to gatecrash someone else's family Christmas.

The most magical part of MY childhood Christmas' was my three grandparents and my aunt all visiting the south from Yorkshire, my parents were there every day of the year so I rather took their presence for granted. For the record I used to volunteer for a few hours on Boxing day when I was a teenager working in hospital pharmacy, but then I lived a short drive away at that time. When my parents retired home to Yorkshire the only way my sibling and I could visit was to have Xmas eve and the day after Boxing day off to travel.

Fire_Fox

Northern_Princess wrote: »

I don't know how to do the multi quote thing, so apologies in advance.

Our holiday year runs from April to March. We all have a meeting in March to discuss annual leave and Department cover ie who would like what leave. Leave is never an issue as we say at this meeting who would prefer to be off when over summer. I have never known anyone in our Department not to get the leave they request.

We can request flexi the day before or if there is phone cover on the day. Our core hours are 10 until 3.30. If there is phone cover which is agreed between ourselves we can come in late in the morning or leave early if you have the time to take. Again this is never an issue as we all cover each other if someone wants to go early etc. We're all a laid back bunch normally. We also have monthly team meetings where we discuss leave and flexi if anyone knows they will need to take it in future.

There is no question of anyone in our work place being treated differently from another. Everyone is treated the same.

As I said earlier we take it in turns to have Christmas Eve off. The woman in question had last year off, I chose to work it to let someone with kids have it off. I am choosing to work it this year too even though the girl that had last year off offered to work it for me.The woman in question needs to work this year as she had last year off, but now she's not happy one girl has had 2 Christmas Eve's off. She has also today made a huge fuss wanting the October week off knowing there's already 3 of us off (discussed at the meeting last month when she was fine with it then). I offered to swap my holidays for October so she can have it off but no, she thinks one of the girls with kids should do it. Now that is unreasonable when I have offered to move my leave to accommodate her.

I have sat for the last hour of my day listening to why 'people with young kids need to get a grip'. None of the girls with kids ask for special treatment, so I really don't understand where this has come from. I have explained to her it was my choice to work and I wasn't asked which was met with a roll of her eyes. On leaving I did say if she's not happy she should raise it with the Team Leader and to let me know about October so I can change my hotel dates. I can't do right for doing wrong!

She is clearly being unreasonable about October. Everyone is not being treated the same, two years in a row you have decided to work Christmas eve and offered the opportunity to someone on the basis of them having small children. Preferential treatment.

You have not explained how covering the phones affects others, does it mean they can't have a lunch break or that they have to have a short lunch break or have to go late/ early? How often are the extended lunches for the nursery?