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Orange 'Free' Broadband
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beelzecubz wrote: »Ok, it's clear that the naysayers aren't prepared to either do their own research or maths.
The facts are that Orange is withdrawing its free broadband offer legally as set out in the T+C's you agreed to (despite what you may say to the contrary). That's it in a nutshell.
Totally agree, even if Orange honor free BB until your Mobile contract runs out, the free BB is finishing end of.0 -
Gah! Is it just me, or have a few people here completely missed the point?!
The fact is that pretty much everyone who will be affected was told that the broadband would be available for the life of their contract, and now Orange are saying that, actually, they've changed their minds. It is also true that in many cases, the only thing that made the Orange mobile contract a good deal was the fact that the home broadband was included.
Case in point: I could have got a better deal (and better reception!) with O2 at the time I renewed my Orange mobile contract. I decided to stay with Orange because the difference in price was less than I would have had to have paid to buy broadband from somewhere else. (The difference in price here being the value of the broadband, for those of you that insist losing a "free" service can't cost anything.) I specifically asked the salesperson to make sure that I could keep the broadband, and I was in the room when she made the phone call to confirm it!
The fact that Orange's landline + broadband package is competitive is completely irrelevant. For one, I (and a lot of others, looking at this thread) am locked into a BT contract for the next year or so, so even if I wanted to transfer to Orange, with their shocking customer service and complete untrustworthiness, I couldn't. Not without paying a penalty to BT, which will cost me money.
So my other option is to look for broadband elsewhere. In fact, BT have been harassing me about Infinity for months, so maybe I'll go with that. However it will still cost me money.
Actually, even if I could move my landline to Orange, and actually wanted to do this, I'm still left with a mobile contract for which I'm paying £5/month over the odds for the next 18 months. A contract which I would never have taken out if the broadband hadn't been guaranteed for the life of it. So yes, in a manner of speaking, this too has cost me money.
What part of that doesn't say "financially detrimental"?!
If Orange had written me a nice letter to say that when my contract runs out in 18 months' time, they won't be providing the broadband anymore, I would have had no issue with it. I would think it was pretty good that I'd had such a competitive deal for so many years, and I would move on. I would even stay with them if they could still provide a decent mobile deal. But I would also then be free to take my business elsewhere if they weren't competitive anymore, so there would be no hard feelings. If they'd also told me in their hypothetical nice letter about their landline and broadband package, I might even have been tempted (and my BT contract would have run out by then), but as it is, I now don't trust them not to suddenly change the rules halfway through my contract.
So no, it's absolutely NOT acceptable to move the goalposts partway through any sort of contract (and I am questioning the legality of it), and the very fact is that it is going to result in a lot of people paying out more each month. And it is going to inconvenience Everyone Everywhere*.
Argh! I am keeping a close eye on this thread to see if anyone gets anywhere with Orange; if I ring them now I will just end up shouting at someone (and my battery will die whilst I'm on hold for three hours...)!
MM
*Not literally everyone, obviously, but quite a lot of Orange customers!0 -
MissMayhem wrote: »Gah! Is it just me, or have a few people here completely missed the point?!
The fact is that pretty much everyone who will be affected was told that the broadband would be available for the life of their contract
The ORIGINAL contract which entitled you to the broadband in the first place!
Free home broadband was continued AFTER that ORIGINAL contract lapsed and was never made part of any further contract for a mobile.
You may well have been told that the broadband would continue if you continued to take a mobile with Orange and that info was correct at the time it was told to you.
I think with the benefit of hindsight, Orange could have headed off this issue if they'd written to people as that original contract ended and advised them that home broadband was still being provided, but that it wasn't contracted for and could be withdrawn at any time.
That was always the case with the home broadband after the initial period, it was just (as always) hidden under swathes of small print.MissMayhem wrote: »So no, it's absolutely NOT acceptable to move the goalposts partway through any sort of contract (and I am questioning the legality of it)
It absolutely IS when an offer that isn't part of a contract and with its own T+C's is withdrawn. The legality is rock solid.
No one's saying you have to LIKE it, because you don't of course.0 -
Just to contradict Neil and Beelzebub
I also signed up to orange broadband which was marketed as 'free for life' providing that you took out a £30 per month contract. Of course it wasn't really free because I paid more for my mobile phone contract in order to qualify (£30 per month rather than £20 per month as I was paying).
If it isn't going to remain free for life on a £30 contract then they must be guilty of mis-selling to me at the time... despite whatever may or may not have said in the contract
Anyway at the moment I haven't received notice of my contract terms being varied as other posters as described... maybe Orange are rolling this out in phases to see what the reaction is...
If they do do this I'll immediately cut the £30 contract for the mobile, I doubt I'll go for their broadband and I definitely won't for the landline - hence possible loss of £30 per month to Orange from me.
Of course they'll know a certain percentage of people will do this - their gamble is that enough people won't be bothered and will just sign up for the broadband/landline additional income to exceed the lost revenues.... hence why they may be 'test marketing' it in phases to see what happens....0 -
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That's not 'free for life' then is it? Its 'free for the duration of the contract'. Funnily enough I don't remember that being the message promoted to me. I am still on the same contract though - just kept renewing it...
Beelzebub you seem to have a very keen interest in this. You claim not to work for Orange but do you work for Everythingeverywhere?0 -
MissMayhem wrote: »to move the goalposts
Post thanked purely for getting that right.
(Goalposts are MOVED people, not CHANGED!)
@ those denigrating my opinion ... first, it is my opinion. Second, I'm pretty sure I'm right that anything sold as part of a contract (even a renewal, and even if it's not written) becomes an implied term of contract. Yes it may have been stated in the ORIGINAL contract, but if it has been provided during subsequent renewals, and especially if the question was asked (is it still free) and the answer was yes, then this reinforces the implied term position.
You can argue all you like about the ORIGINAL contract, but you are still wrong. (IMHO of course.
)
The people affected by this may want to consider a class action against Orange ... i.e. pool their resources?0 -
beelzecubz wrote: »The ORIGINAL contract which entitled you to the broadband in the first place!
Free home broadband was continued AFTER that ORIGINAL contract lapsed and was never made part of any further contract for a mobile.
If I had never renewed the contract after the initial 12/18 month (I can't remember which, off the top of my head) one I signed in 2005 (i.e. I'd just carried on paying Orange for the service I was already getting and not upgraded or signed another contract), then yes, this would be true.
HOWEVER, I've had 3 or 4 contract renewals since this point (at least one of which was whilst they were still doing the "free broadband" deal for all customers), and have always made it quite clear that I'm renewing the contract on the basis that I still get the broadband.
The broadband is quite clearly listed on my bill under "extras and discounts", along with "Loyalty - 10% off line rental". So by your reckoning, does this mean that they can legitimately withdraw the 10% off line rental too, despite the fact that it was agreed to when I signed the contract?0 -
That's not 'free for life' then is it? Its 'free for the duration of the contract'. Funnily enough I don't remember that being the message promoted to me. I am still on the same contract though - just kept renewing it...
Beelzebub you seem to have a very keen interest in this. You claim not to work for Orange but do you work for Everythingeverywhere?
He doesn't but he is like me and just can't believe people can't or won't do their sums regarding Orange.
Lots of new people coming to MSE, some of them members but have never posted until now lol.
Here is a link, this should be very helpful.
http://www.orangeproblems.co.uk/phpBB2/index.php
Its where I learnt all about Orange to my favour over the years.0 -
One of the 'charms' of this debate is the concept of 'freeness'.
A free sachet of conditioner with my shampoo may indeed be 'free'. It is a one-off, time limited element and the contract is clear. A 'new improved shampooo with conditioner' is a bundle which does two things.
It is more difficult when there is a service. Clearly most of us paid money for a bundle consisting of mobile usage and broadband; there was no talk at the time of one of them being time-limited and even if there were, we paid money for the package, in good faith and the contract was for a service consisting of mobile service with (what we are now told is 'free') broadband.
But the broadband can never have been 'free' (except to the copywriter)? There was an aggregate cost for the service(s) which we paid. If you pay money then no part of it is 'free'; money has changed hands for a defined service.
If nothing is said at the time about the length that one of the elements lasts then you are buying the package for the length of the contract. Had they said 'and broadband will be free for the first three months' then it would be quite different.
Restrospectively to define the broadband as having been 'free' and cancelling it is the equivalent of declaring that the conditioner in my bottle of conditioning shampoo was 'free' and asking for it back.
And, as someone else has pointed out, the letter was peremptory without any of the facts on which to base a decision about landline rental (eg the cost of phone calls).
Is it surprising they have got up all our noses?0
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