Deleted

pqrdef

Quasar wrote: »

Young people have always started on low wages and then progressed according to their ability.

The historical norm is to start on low wages and stay there.

People who've attained higher things have an amazing propensity for assuming that everybody else can do the same (notwithstanding that they're all scumbags and were born that way, it seems).

But you can't have a pyramid that starts half way up. It's always going to be widest at the bottom. Moreover, anybody who isn't at the bottom is totally dependent on the people below him to hold him up.


As for pride and aspiration, I didn't get my first proper job by having those. I got it by lowering my sights a lot. Pride and aspiration took a big knock.

Sorry, but you can't expect anybody to be proud of being a burger-flipper when everybody else treats burger-flippers as a national joke.


But two things haven't been established. First, we don't know that there is a vast pool of shirkers. There are some, but we don't know how many.

Second, it's not obvious that it makes any difference, economically. Any scrounger who is pushed or shamed into taking a job is only taking the job away from somebody who wants it. You still end up with the same number of people on benefit.

Long-term and hereditary unemployment is a social problem, not an economic one. It's been allowed to fester for too long and needs tackling. But tackling it will cost - it's not going to achieve a spending cut. And a recession is not the time.

Itismehonest

bankhater_1965 wrote: »

im not sure about the work ethic, personaly i think its solely down to foriegn workers working for next to nothing , and that dont put me a britain to shame

Maybe they just don't have an over-inflated view of their own worth?
Maybe even the graduates abroad recognise that a low paid job is better than no job?

A job is a job. I've worked doing all manner of things in my lifetime - some very low paid & long before NMW came into being. I've, at times held down more than one job at a time to be able to afford things I wanted to buy because I was brought up in a time before it was considered OK to run up debts.

The NMW just seems to have made Brits turn their noses up even more at some completely vital jobs.
If others are willing to work for the legal minimum & we aren't then it isn't the fault of either the foreigners or of the employers.

bankhater_1965

a job isnt a job if it does not pay more than benefits !
it is the fault of the gates open to foriegn workers here , they have lowered the hourly rate and employers have taken advantage of it to boost profits by employing these workers , in fact lets be honest a foreign worker would work allday for less than the minimum wage , why are we slating british workers who refuse to work for these unlivable wages

Tiddlywinks

pqrdef wrote: »

Sorry, but you can't expect anybody to be proud of being a burger-flipper when everybody else treats burger-flippers as a national joke.

Why shouldn't they be proud of what they do? They are providing a valuable service and are working hard to support themselves - they deserve respect. I don't see them as a joke - I see them as workers.

Quasar wrote: »

Please answer my question, who pays the pensions of those who have never contributed anything even if they could have?

Sadly, we only need to look in the mirror (not the newspaper ) for that answer.

By the way Quasar... you need to make your next post extra meaningful as it will be your 100,000th.

Quasar

Something is happening whereby I can't quote posts, so, psrdef in reply to your post.

This is where cultural differences emerge. In my country a worker takes great pride in sweeping the street and hopes for something better. This is inculcated in children from an early age: NO job is lowly and every job is worth while, why living on handouts is to be shunned. And yes, a humble job CAN lead to better ones.

Therefore my own mindset makes flipping burgers a matter of pride because, well, one is earning one's money by honest labour.

I started out as a shelf filler while earning my qualifications. I'm not saying everyone can do the same thing, but when the system in place makes it easy not to even try, then we're on a loser big time, both personally and socially.

Quasar

Bankhater (damn I can't quote posts)

Sadly, we only need to look in the mirror (not the newspaper ) for that answer.
By the way Quasar... you need to make your next post extra meaningful as it will be your 100,000th.

Indeed in the mirror? Yes I and you are paying towards benefits and pensions of those who do not work. In that we agree.

As for my posts, nice of you to care, coz I don't.

Itismehonest

bankhater_1965 wrote: »

a job isnt a job if it does not pay more than benefits !

You say you run a successful business but didn't seem to know the difference between tax evasion & tax avoidance.
Does your accountant get your tax bill down?
How much do you pay your staff? Hopefully well over NMW from what you say.

Yes, footballers are overpaid. That's because some people (not including me) think they are worth it.
The majority of bankers that you condemn are ordinary tellers in ordinary banks.

I have to say that your attitude of begrudging anyone who earns more than you is completely alien to most business people. They usually hope to achieve the best possible & know that comes from effort.

Keep going..... I'm starting to recognise something about your posts. I'll get the name soon.

Tiddlywinks

bankhater_1965 wrote: »

a job isnt a job if it does not pay more than benefits !

This angers me more than all of your other posts... of course it's a job.

Your view is the reason quite a few use as justification for not working - they say it's not worth their while... what about self respect, the ability to start in any job in order to get experience or good references? Just wanting to be in control?

It shouldn't just be about 'buying power', it should mean more than that.

bankhater_1965

Originally Posted by pqrdef
Sorry, but you can't expect anybody to be proud of being a burger-flipper when everybody else treats burger-flippers as a national joke

i myself own a grounds maintanance business and very often go round litter picking even though i am a proffesional in horticultural , its a great life and very well paid, and prefer it to sitting in a office pushing paper and joining the rat race every morning in traffic jams, if someone has a burger bar and flipping burgers alday i would guess he or she maybe turning over £200-£500 per day which would put alot of peoples proffesions on here to shame personaly

Quasar

Bankhater I do agree with your post #215 above - the one about the litter picking. I need to lie down now, lol.

*what's happening here, that I can't quote posts anymore? Meh.*