Preparedness for when

moneyistooshorttomention

nuatha wrote: »

Generally refugees have the same mix of traits as any other humans. Cultural issues do make make a murderer, rapist or thief - I'm not aware of any culture that promotes these "activities."
All refugees are not these things and I do not, in any way, support the idea that this is unique to refugees - I wish it were, then we wouldn't have murder, rape etc in the majority of our country.

Some cultural adjustments can work both ways, the popularity of "foreign" cuisines in the UK is a testament to this.
If your expectations and view of a culture derives solely from the media whether its the likes of the Daily Mail or Hollywood films the reality is going to be very confusing, even without this, the situation you're in, fleeing a war-torn country, leaving just about everything you know and own behind and finding yourself in a very different situation is stressful and confusing in itself.

I'll admit to puzzlement at the comment of "some cultural adjustments can work both ways".

With my own low boredom threshold - I am very open to trying out music, food, etc from other countries - rather than just sticking to British ones (as that narrows my range of whats available to me if I do that). Checking out my collection of food and music would soon reveal someone who is an avid experimenter with what other cultures have to offer in "external" respects.

But I'm rather taking "cultural adjustments" at a deeper level than superficial things like that? In which case = it goes one way only and they learn to adapt to our culture at this deeper level (ie eat your own food, listen to your own music - but in public then "when in Rome" etc etc and abide by our way of thinking, etc).

fuddle

I think everyone has the right to live their lives the way they want to as long as it doesn't harm others.

That being said I feel it is respectful to intergrate with the community in ways that the community are accustomed to. As a visitor I feel it only right and proper that I do that and I expect that as an incomer I would endevour to do the same. It's respectful. I wouldn't expect the community to change for me at all.

The flip side is that there's so much to learn from other people and the thought of people hiding away in their homes trying to not offend as their ways are different doesn't sit right with me.

I welcome respectful, kind people who abide with our rules and are willing to share what they know from all over the world and would love to trade them for all the rude and ignorant Brits we have in this country.

Just how I feel.

mynameisnotmardatha

Still tagging along behind you all here, dragging this heavy name with me ...

GreyQueen

Evening all.

The difficulty with the present situation is that it's of a magnitude unprecidented in Europe in the last seventy years. Yes, there have been movements of refugees, such as the Ugandan Asians and the Vietnamese boat people (some of the children of the latter group are my peers, incidentally) but no one under 90 has any experience of what we're experiencing now.

Regardless of what is going on in their country of origin, you have people who have bypassed a continent's width of safe countries (in some cases almost two continents' widths) to make their way to the UK and to other northern European countries. They haven't stopped running when they reached safety, they carried on coming until they reached what they percieve will be a place of economic betterment, and of safety.

It's reasonable to say that some of those who have thrown themselves into our country weren't in fear of their lives at all but were wanting better opportunities. That's understandable, but it has to be understood that forcing yourself into another country isn't likely to make you popular with the indigenes. And that, although the indigenous might look very prosperous by the standards of your homelands, they are often under acute economic stress themselves, and not likely to be overjoyed to have the economic pie sliced more finely still.

It would be prudent if those who are currently in limbo, in terms of statehood, kept a low profile and made every effort to make their behaviour beyond reproach.

**************

Before al this, I would have bet we'd vote to leave the EU by the narrowest of margins, now I would reckon that about 70% of those who vote the most (middle and older ages groups) would vote to leave the union. Whether this mass movement of people is the breaking of the Union or not will remain to be seen.

Nargleblast

All I ask is that anyone who wants to come and live in this country should be prepared to work, pay their taxes, obey our country's laws, make an effort to socialise with the natives and learn at least enough English to be able to get by in our society. It is precisely what I would do if I went to live in another country.

[Deleted User]

GreyQueen wrote: »

And as her assailant has apparently got away scot-free, how could they make a case that she harmed him with pepper spray?

They don't need to.

Simple possession, of a prohibited weapon, is an offence.

[Deleted User]

moneyistooshorttomention wrote: »

It would create one heck of a stink if they try to fine an innocent woman just for defending herself.

She wouldn't be fined for defending herself.

She would be fined for possessing an illegal weapon.

Frugalsod

Who would stay in a war zone when their home town looks like this?

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-01-27/these-stunning-images-depict-destruction-homs-syrias-third-largest-city

I can understand why people will move here, even if there are other places along their route that would be safe. I think our language makes it easier to get assimilate, as it is common the world over.

[Deleted User]

MrsLurcherwalker wrote: »

To be carrying around a weapon that is known to be illegal in the first place is going to call the coals of wrath down on your head no matter what the justification for using it.

Agreed. If "I know it's prohibited, but I was only carrying it for protection" is an acceptable defence/mitigation, then we could all carry 9mm pistols, and make the same argument.

pineapple wrote: »

There does have to be law and consequences. However there is often scope to sentence at the lower end of the penalty - ie allowing for mitigating circumstances.

The problem is, there's no demonstrable correlation, between the attempted rape, and the possession of the prohibited weapon.

fuddle wrote: »

She intended to break the law come what may.

Correct. I don't see how she could argue that, she only carried it on that one occasion, because she feared that particular man, on that particular occasion, was going to attack her.

It's pretty obvious, that she was carrying the spray, as a matter of routine.

GreyQueen

GreyQueen wrote: »

:mad: Me, too.

And as her assailant has apparently got away scot-free, how could they make a case that she harmed him with pepper spray? Just that she had something in her possession that she shouldn't have owned.

I have zero tolerance for the mindset which wants to put its sexual organs (or other items) into other people's orifices by force. These are devastating crimes which ruin lives and should be treated with the utmost severity by the police and the criminal justice system, wherever they occur.

I imagine that 17 year old's parents are terrified, holding their daughter close, and thanking their lucky stars for the pepper spray. And that many thousands of others will be trying to source the product for themselves/ their loved ones.

Bedsit_Bob wrote: »

She wouldn't be fined for defending herself.

She would be fined for possessing an illegal weapon.

You're selectively-quoting that paragraph, Bob, see the bit I've bolded for the acknowledgement of that very point.

Of course no one should carry proscribed items. And if they do, they should feel the full force of the law.

And the Police should be maintaining the laws of the land, not merely acting as a crime-recording authority. And it's so much easier to bully what is probably still a school-girl, almost certainly smaller, weaker and younger than her assailant, than it is to get heavy with the perpetrator, assuming he can ever be found.

I am about the median height of a northern European man of Caucasian extraction. I don't kid myself for a moment that I have anything approaching the strength of an adult man, or even that of a mid/ late teen boy. Nor would I ever have had, even in the prime of my own youth, pre-ME. I've done enough sparring to know that very well.

Which means that I, and every other female, live our whole lives knowing we are both more likely to be the chosen victims for sexual assaults than men, and almost certainly will come off the worst for any altercation where force is used.

Some items can equalise the odds, to a modest degree, but we live in societies which make all the right noises about being opposed to violence against women without really addressing it. And which finds it much more easier to limit devices like pepper spray than to grasp the nettle.

Meanwhile, as I live in a place called the Real World, where some of my neighbours do not hestitate to raise their hands to their own partners, and others are ex-cons out on life-licenses, I continue to keep implements capable of inflicting blunt trauma to hand.

Because the cavalry won't be riding to save me in time if it all goes t*ts up and I will need force-magnifiers (weapons) to even the odds to the point where an attack would be survivable.

If someone kicks my door in, they are four strides from my bedroom with only a flimsy hollow-core door between me and them. Which would be about as much use as a chocolate teapot.

Which is why the rolling pin is behind the pillow and almost under my hand as I sleep - there isn't enough room in the bedroom to make a baseball bat an effective club at such close quarters and trust me, I've researched it.;)