Preparedness for when

nuatha

fuddle wrote: »

Legalising pepper sprays and the like would be a disaster in my eyes. I think we have too many Tom, D i c k and Harriets that would find their use amusing at the very least and use to intimidate vulnerable people at worst. The freedom to carry eggs and use as a method of manipulation or intimidation is very real. Imagine what could be if pepper spray was legalised.

It makes sense in a scenario of self defence but in every day life it would fall into the hands of the people who think it's fine to get their amusement from doing silly, and often dangerous, things to other people.

It would actually be safer than many of the legal things we've discussed.
Pepper Spray and Mace are the product of a huge amount of research to find weapons that are simple to use, incapacitating but have very few long lasting effects. (Not to say there aren't deaths in which pepper spray is regarded as a contributing factor)

GreyQueen wrote: »

I've thought of this, fuddle.

Small canisters of pepper spray, each with a unique identifying number, could be purchased from the Police by those who think they need them. On proof of ID, with each canister registered to an individual (or to their parent/ guardian if they are a minor ) who is held accountable for their whereabouts. An obligation to report a missing/ stolen canister to the Police immediately. And an obligation to report when/ if the cannister is ever deployed.

Pepper spray issued in a controlled way, with personal accountability back to the recipient, and with the opportunity to provide written material and Words of Advice on the consquences of misuse of the spray when issued. Far better than having black market pepper sprays in circulation or a slew of random DIY sprays which might cause permanant harm.

Righty, off to do some work, will be back this evening. GQ x

This is a really well thought out idea, thank you.
I'd suggest adding serial number tagging on the lines of MetTrace or SmartWater. This would identify the user and the persons it was used on - so any abusive use would be verifiable and and a perp would be identifiable.

I have no idea what the long term consequences of using a legal domestic product aimed at someone's eyes in a self defence scenario. One possibility is that the spray actually penetrates the eyeball - like a hypodermic syringe would (been there, really not pleasant but survivable) since that was one of the early flaws in pepper spray delivery systems.

thriftwizard wrote: »

Justice - i.e. the application of the law - should be tempered by mercy... it may theoretically be against the law to use whatever you have (legally) to hand to defend yourself if attacked, but any justice system worth defending should apply the principle of mercy and accept the mitigating circumstances.

And there is substantial case law precedent to form the basis of a defence if the system decides to prosecute.
None of which applies if you are illegally prepped as that is regarded as going equipped to inflict damage on a person or persons unknown, at the very least it is likely to escalate the charges brought against you.

In other news, here's a slightly scary article. I wonder how many people much under 50 have any knowledge of where to find these things & how to prepare them? We went to Crete long ago - one of OH's friends had married a local girl - and were enchanted by the local food, drink & (to our eyes) archaic customs; I hope for their sakes that enough of those have survived for people to keep from starving.

Thank you for sharing the article, I had missed that.
It is seriously worrying, and its looking like the Greeks are about to be scapegoated again (the borders issue).

fuddle

I must get on too but before I log off I just want to leave with a few thoughts.

If I have this right our laws allow us to act in self defense to a point that is deemed necessary.

Pepper spray is far from a harmless irritant to use in self defense. It leaves the person incapacitated and unable to defend or control themselves. Ok so you're being attacked and whatever force is necessary is bliddy necessary right? Not if the perpetrator wanders infront of a car or is set about by vigilantes coming to the rescue. Pepper spray can kill and that before any damage to the eyes, respitory system or lungs.

If pepper spray was legalised then it would be easier for attacks to happen. Folk with intent would pepper spray us, leave us incapacitated without the ability to draw our own or even stand a chance fighting them off. We would be helpless to stop whatever came our way.

If we were able to have pepper spray then it's a knocking bet the perpetrators will have it too.

I find it difficult to comprehend any idea of the police issuing these for the purpose of self defense. Even if these are assigned in the ways suggested... only because accountability or not, pepper spray could be used against the police.

It's been interesting folks! Kitchen floors and pizza bases await but before I go I'll blame this thread for making me paranoid. I was asked the time this morning by someone I rather naughtily immediately assessed as an oik. I didn't withdraw my phone from my pocket instead choosing to check the watch that I know I didn't have on my wrist.

I wouldn't mind but it was persisting down and 70 mile an hour winds! Yeah probably only interested in the time. :rotfl:

nuatha

GreyQueen wrote: »

That's the exact idea, nuatha. A handful of seconds to kick off the bedding and get up on my feet with a short, heavy club ready to meet anyone coming through my bedroom door. The idea being one stunning blow and run like **** past them and into public areas screaming like a banshee and then hiding until Lauran Order can get there and take over.

Not to pummel someone's skull into a pulp and murder them. I don't want a death on my conscience, but I'd want that less than I want to be dead myself. Ultimately, my stance is that I'm far more attached to my own skin than I am to the wellbeing of someone who is putting me in fear of my life, and I will act accordingly.

In case I haven't said it before - I really like the way you think.

May I suggest that if the situation arises and you have the ability to do so, you strike at the upper shoulder - a smashed collar bone being less likely to be fatal than a blow to the skull, the extra few inches adding significant momentum to your strike and its actually more likely to put them on the ground for you run over/past them. (There are some people who do have seriously thick skulls, who don't seem to notice blows to the head) And I'd rather you didn't have to live with regrets on your conscience - though I'd rather you continued to be part of this world than some low-life who attacks you.

ivyleaf

fuddle wrote: »

Legalising pepper sprays and the like would be a disaster in my eyes. I think we have too many Tom, D i c k and Harriets that would find their use amusing at the very least and use to intimidate vulnerable people at worst. The freedom to carry eggs and use as a method of manipulation or intimidation is very real. Imagine what could be if pepper spray was legalised.

It makes sense in a scenario of self defence but in every day life it would fall into the hands of the people who think it's fine to get their amusement from doing silly, and often dangerous, things to other people.

Exactly what I was thinking too

nuatha

Different subject entirely
http://www.jamesdysonaward.org/projects/fontus-2/

A water bottle that extracts water from the air - most effective used on a push bike but tests have it extracting water while stood still in our climate. Its still in prototyping, but I think this is a technology to watch. (There's discussion of adding some additional filtration to deal with heavily contaminated airstreams)

nuatha

fuddle wrote: »

I must get on too but before I log off I just want to leave with a few thoughts.

If I have this right our laws allow us to act in self defense to a point that is deemed necessary.

Not quite.
The law permits us to act in our own self defence as long as we use no more than reasonable force. The definition of what is considered reasonable or excessive force is to be determined by a jury after the event. There is case law which will be used by CPP in deciding whether or not to charge and go to trial.
The same criteria apply to defending a third party.

It's been interesting folks! Kitchen floors and pizza bases await but before I go I'll blame this thread for making me paranoid. I was asked the time this morning by someone I rather naughtily immediately assessed as an oik. I didn't withdraw my phone from my pocket instead choosing to check the watch that I know I didn't have on my wrist.

I wouldn't mind but it was persisting down and 70 mile an hour winds! Yeah probably only interested in the time. :rotfl:

I snipped the further discussion on pepper spray because I think we'd end up going round the same circles. There has never been a problem with people who wish to obtain illegal items doing so. (The post Dunblane handgun ban, the governments own figures were that the ban would remove less than 5% of the handguns being held in the UK as more than 95% were illegally held).

I cannot foresee any circumstances in which a UK government would legalise pepper spray, not least because of the point you made about citizens using it against the police.

A degree of paranoia is healthy - I am not a psychiatrist, nor do I play one on TV. If your assessment was exposing your phone may have led to its theft, the result is, whether you were right or wrong, you still have your phone. As I said a degree of paranoia is healthy.

Good luck with the pizza bases and kitchen floors - though I now have a peculiar vision of just how you roll out your pizza bases

Softstuff

I remember back in my distant past as a schoolgirl some *cough*20 or so *cough* years, hosting German exchange students. We went out to the local nightclub and as a group walked home.Granted, I didn't live in a particularly safe place, but always felt safe in a group. The German girls wanted to know where our pepper spray was. They always carried it as a matter of course and felt very unsafe without. I wonder what stats the Germans have on it being used inappropriately.

[Deleted User]

Ooohhh the FONTUS water extraction system's VERY exciting as a development, very exciting indeed to a prepper!

Frugalsod

GreyQueen wrote: »

Which is why the rolling pin is behind the pillow and almost under my hand as I sleep - there isn't enough room in the bedroom to make a baseball bat an effective club at such close quarters and trust me, I've researched it.;)

Have you modified the rolling pin with spikes through it? Baseball bats with spikes do have significant deterrent effects, and I wondered if you had researched the use of spikes in rolling pins? It does make pastry harder to roll but you might have a spare in the kitchen for that. :beer:

Frugalsod

nuatha wrote: »

Different subject entirely
http://www.jamesdysonaward.org/projects/fontus-2/

A water bottle that extracts water from the air - most effective used on a push bike but tests have it extracting water while stood still in our climate. Its still in prototyping, but I think this is a technology to watch. (There's discussion of adding some additional filtration to deal with heavily contaminated airstreams)

I have seen domestic water extractors in promo videos which can pull several litres of water a day out of the air. With the problems in Flint with poisoned water supplies something like this makes a lot of sense from the prepper perspective.