Preparedness for when

fuddle

Absolutely, I sign up to the when in Rome mentality too.

I think historically women have been the lesser being without rights. Some cultures have developed and, I guess, some haven't. Maybe these men who are doing these things don't think it's wrong. I know it sounds an idiotic thing to say but just maybe? They must know that it is wrong if they want to live in places where women have a right to not be violated. How that message can get across I just don't know but it needs to and fast!

nuatha

Frugalsod wrote: »

I have known a few refugees and these were not the sort of things that they would do. Though I do agree with you that cultural issues are the problem. I too understand what you mean and I agree. This should not be tolerated at all. Though as someone who assimilates very easily I do not see what the problem is with these people. When you understand the reasons for why they do things it makes more sense. Though as they are in a foreign land they should expect to adjust to the local ways not the other way around.

Generally refugees have the same mix of traits as any other humans. Cultural issues do make make a murderer, rapist or thief - I'm not aware of any culture that promotes these "activities."
All refugees are not these things and I do not, in any way, support the idea that this is unique to refugees - I wish it were, then we wouldn't have murder, rape etc in the majority of our country.

Some cultural adjustments can work both ways, the popularity of "foreign" cuisines in the UK is a testament to this.
If your expectations and view of a culture derives solely from the media whether its the likes of the Daily Mail or Hollywood films the reality is going to be very confusing, even without this, the situation you're in, fleeing a war-torn country, leaving just about everything you know and own behind and finding yourself in a very different situation is stressful and confusing in itself.

[Deleted User]

People are people wherever they come from and there are good ones, bad ones, stupid ones, intelligent ones you won't like them all but you won't hate them all either. I think that the real problem with the current influx of displaced people is the fact that the issue is being forced and they are arriving uninvited and expecting to be allowed to stay. Perhaps uninvited is an inept way of putting it, they are arriving through unlawful channels and then in some cases refusing to be processed to get the correct documentation to allow entry and assessment. The media are casting doubt on eligibility and motivation of some of these folks, yesterday there was a piece on the newsfeed about Isil channeling sleeper cells in amongst them to commit atrocities in Europe, the mess left behind wherever the people travel is apparent in every photo, news report I see. Then there is the unacceptable behaviour that is from young males who have come in unlawfully towards western women, they can have no concept of western life to commit the assults etc. on our ladies so education MUST be part of their lives if they are allowed to stay. We are the west, they cannot expect us to change our lives to accommodate them and their customs just because they have come here, harsh but it's the truth. If they are eligible to stay they must accept that we live a different life to what they are used to and have different customs and freedoms that they have never experienced, the will have to adapt to our life if they are here and we will have to understand that they will have customs and life choices that they will rightly continue to practice in their new lives here. There is room for both with tolerance and understanding being needed from all parties.

RAS

I thought this rather interesting http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/settled-migrants-in-the-uk-are-showing-new-ones-how-to-cope-with-our-baffling-culture-a6835146.html

Given my role and past roles what I find is that nasty people tend to exploit those who who they know. So people from Eastern Europe are exploited by their compatriots, whether it be forced labour or a short holiday to facilitate benefit fraud.

I have encountered/warned people from across Asia and Africa about employment fraud; I do not think it was more than money raising but some may have been at even worse risk. I have encountered people whose extended families have used all their savings and more to enable one person to emigrate; legally, only to find it was a scam, perpetrated by their own countryman/woman.

On the "legitimate" end of the same industry are major names who spend millions persuading people and employers that they can provide matching services, shifting them to places where the grass is greener? Or not.

I have also dealt with people who come from countries where the only way to survive (literally) is to work out what it is safe to say or do and to pretend/lie/connive/bribe/steal. Not out of badness but because the alternative is starvation, or beating or death, or escape. I do not take any rubbish but I do understand the motivation.

Dropping out of the bottom of this mass churning are people who are barely surviving, who have to wheedle and hustle and sometimes steal to survive in a different country. Add to that stress, misreading of clues and signals and cultural misunderstandings and it make things hard for everyone.

It is not that long ago that I was nearly auctioned (jokingly -sort off) when we strayed into the wrong pub in a major historical city in these islands. And told that I could not be served except in the snug. Things have changed a lot in the last 40 years here. It will take a while for people who have lived in other countries to learn how to behave and a few will need a firm hand, as do some of those born, bred here.

fuddle

Really good point RAS. It was only the mid 90's where my great uncle thought it appropriate to brush his arm across the two bolders affixed to my front everytime we met. It was not acceprible to me and I suspect if I had spoken about it it wouldn't have been acceptible to my grandad et al but, as the abuse cases that are coming to light now for 20+ years ago show, our modern thinking for not laying even a finger tip on a female is extremely modern thinking.

I am sure I will be flamed for writing the above but I can't help thinking that growing up there was a culture of turning a blind eye or thinking touching boobies was funny and not that bad.

Today I feel that is different.

nuatha

fuddle wrote: »

Really good point RAS. It was only the mid 90's where my great uncle thought it appropriate to brush his arm across the two bolders affixed to my front everytime we met. It was not acceprible to me and I suspect if I had spoken about it it wouldn't have been acceptible to my grandad et al but, as the abuse cases that are coming to light now for 20+ years ago show, our modern thinking for not laying even a finger tip on a female is extremely modern thinking.

I am sure I will be flamed for writing the above but I can't help thinking that growing up there was a culture of turning a blind eye or thinking touching boobies was funny and not that bad.

Today I feel that is different.

You won't be flamed by me.
I just wish everywhere had moved on, sexual abuse is still widespread, it may be less acceptable and it may be easier to challenge but its still happening, and groups of teenage lads can be some of the worse perpetrators regardless of origin.

Frugalsod

fuddle wrote: »

Really good point RAS. It was only the mid 90's where my great uncle thought it appropriate to brush his arm across the two bolders affixed to my front everytime we met. It was not acceprible to me and I suspect if I had spoken about it it wouldn't have been acceptible to my grandad et al but, as the abuse cases that are coming to light now for 20+ years ago show, our modern thinking for not laying even a finger tip on a female is extremely modern thinking.

I am sure I will be flamed for writing the above but I can't help thinking that growing up there was a culture of turning a blind eye or thinking touching boobies was funny and not that bad.

Today I feel that is different.

Not at all. Years ago I had an ex girlfriend who had been raped repeatedly by an uncle but the family would hear nothing of it. She had to leave home because of this. Even then the statistics were that you were more likely to be raped by someone you know, than a stranger.

Though things have changed considerably since the 1970's and now. When I was at school and the Radio One road show was nearby some of the girls from school would disappear and return a few days later with tales of sexual exploits with the DJ's or crew. Few of the girls were above 16 years of age. So things have changed for the better.

thriftwizard

No flaming from me, Fuddle, I know exactly where you're coming from & couldn't agree more. I'm that little bit older & it was even worse back in the 70s, and I shudder when I remember that the official advice given to Mum when she was widowed & penniless in 1970 was to put my younger brother & I into children's homes & forget she'd ever had us...

But I can't resist a gentle laugh; I do agree utterly that refugees should learn about & live within the bounds of our culture. But, speaking as someone whose family had a longstanding connection with the Indian subcontinent, that's hardly what our own ancestors did! I believe it was different in the very early days, when it was usually unattached males who "went out" as there was little condemnation of intermarriage, for example, or dressing sensibly for the conditions. But once the Memsahibs went out, things changed... I know they weren't refugees, but saw themselves as conquerors, as my OH's Norman ancestors did, with every right to enforce their cultural norms, and it was really all about the money anyway. But there might just be an element of sauce for the goose...?

Mojisola

thriftwizard wrote: »

But I can't resist a gentle laugh; I do agree utterly that refugees should learn about & live within the bounds of our culture. But, speaking as someone whose family had a longstanding connection with the Indian subcontinent, that's hardly what our own ancestors did!

You don't have to go that far back - just look at some of the Brits in Spain!

[Deleted User]

Nor by me honey!!!

THRIFTWIZARD that was then but we live NOW in 2016 and know that behaviour towards our fellow humans regardless of where they originate or where we find ourselves in their countries has to be acceptable to all parties, we're not the rampaging British Empire any longer. I read the other day that we're referred to as the CRUSADER WEST by Isil, it's almost 1000 years since the crusades against the Saracens we in the west have come a long way in humanity since then and there is no possible way we can be compared with those who went on the crusades back them, we have moved on but if those who are Daesh want revenge for the things our very ancient ancestors did they are so far removed from modern life as to be unreachable by reason.