Preparedness for when

moneyistooshorttomention

Ah right...it was a very quick read of that article and I didn't click that the fine hasn't yet been imposed on that poor girl.

Hopefully - it wont be imposed then (as you say). It would create one heck of a stink if they try to fine an innocent woman just for defending herself. One of the first things that would happen would be a Facebook page (or the like) asking people to give money to pay the fine off for her and I'm sure people would offer to help in their thousands. I would certainly be prepared to hand over a bit of dosh towards a woman that was a total stranger to myself in those circumstances - partly because of being sorry for her and partly to make it plain to TPTB that we are entitled to maintain our "Way of Life" in our Western countries and its about time our right to this was fully taken account of by TPTB.

When you add on the fact that that poor woman is in the agegroup where she might have become pregnant as well if that man had succeeded in raping her - the mind boggles at the possibility she could have been landed with the effects of this mans violent act against her for the rest of her life (eg if she had gone ahead and had the resultant child).

[Deleted User]

It would be a very wrong world if you had to choose between being raped and defending yourself by whatever means for fear of prosecution BUT as Nuatha says 'ILLEGAL' is known to be illegal and as such should NOT be part of a preconceived personal defence plan by anyone. To be carrying around a weapon that is known to be illegal in the first place is going to call the coals of wrath down on your head no matter what the justification for using it. Having said that if you are in the position that poor girl was I'm certain you'd do whatever it took with whatever was to hand to fight off your attacker and not think of consequences and I so hope they don't fine her for defending herself.

pineapple

moneyistooshorttomention wrote: »

One of the first things that would happen would be a Facebook page (or the like) asking people to give money to pay the fine off for her and I'm sure people would offer to help in their thousands

Agreed. There does have to be law and consequences. However there is often scope to sentence at the lower end of the penalty - ie allowing for mitigating circumstances. Plus sometimes popular opinion rallies round the person sentenced. I don't think this is akin to expecting others to pay your fine as someone suggested. It's just the way it is.

pineapple

moneyistooshorttomention wrote: »

and partly to make it plain to TPTB that we are entitled to maintain our "Way of Life" in our Western countries and its about time our right to this was fully taken account of by TPTB.

While there might be more of these issues with a particular group there are plenty of born and bred in the UK scumbags. We are talking self defence here and it's the same for the victim wherever their attacker comes from. If I got attacked my first thought would be about self defence rather than about making a political point. That's a whole other discussion imo.

ivyleaf

kittie wrote: »

mumbai airport catering

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nrerFOy97yw

All I can say is :eek::eek::eek:_pale__pale__pale_

fuddle

If we start applying a sense of morality in law then we're on dangerous ground in my opinion. Law is there to deal with fact and the whole issue of intent is grey enough when dealing with fact.

I'm pleased the girl was able to defend herself but she did break the law. She intendended to break the law come what may. Had she hit her attacker with a brick from the ground and killed him there are greater morals at force don't ya think? But there was no intent until she had to act in self defence.

Morality, for me, doesn't come into it. The laws are there to protect everyone. Break that law with intent then there's dodgy ground... whether it's morally right or wrong. My point being that we all have skewed views of what is right or wrong.

Frugalsod

fuddle wrote: »

If we start applying a sense of morality in law then we're on dangerous ground in my opinion. Law is there to deal with fact and the whole issue of intent is grey enough when dealing with fact.

I'm pleased the girl was able to defend herself but she did break the law. She intendended to break the law come what may. Had she hit her attacker with a brick from the ground and killed him there are greater morals at force don't ya think? But there was no intent until she had to act in self defence.

Morality, for me, doesn't come into it. The laws are there to protect everyone. Break that law with intent then there's dodgy ground... whether it's morally right or wrong. My point being that we all have skewed views of what is right or wrong.

Also sometimes the law is wrong. In this case while the fine might be €50 she might only be fined €1 because of the circumstances.

Her arrest was probably because the police felt that they had to do something. My father was in a similar situation many years ago while working. He was a manager of a hotel and some drunken customers wanted a drink past hours and lunged over the bar. He hit one with a soda syphon. The police arrived and arrested my father and he did have to go to court, he was acquitted and the day after the trial the local superintendent dropped in a police baton which was the only legal weapon at that time. So for years that remained under the bar without ever being needed.

As you said she had no intent while the pepper spray might have been in her handbag for years. Which would show that she was not using it except in extreme emergencies, which does not happen often.

If they have captured the attempted rapist and he was a refugee then they might simply deport him. Genuine refugees do not do things like this.

fuddle

Some good points there frugalsod. Awful thing to have to have happen to your father and goes to show that even if there's something that can be used as a weapon, legal or otherwise, planned or spare of the moment, it's still apparent that we all have to be accountable for our actions whether in self defence or not. How is defending property seen in the eyes of the law?

frugalsod I'm afraid that it seems that genuine refugees do do things like that. For some cultures it's seen as acceptable by men to do whatever they please to women without consequence. It's a difference in cultural values and has nothing to do with ethnicity, wealth, seeking asylum or country of origin. It's worrying and for me, education is vitally important for anyone stepping on our shores. Ignorance to our laws is one thing but ignorance to our own cultural values cannot be tolerated, in my opinion.

Frugalsod

fuddle wrote: »

frugalsod I'm afraid that it seems that genuine refugees do do things like that. For some cultures it's seen as acceptable by men to do whatever they please to women without consequence. It's a difference in cultural values and has nothing to do with ethnicity, wealth, seeking asylum or country of origin. It's worrying and for me, education is vitally important for anyone stepping on our shores. Ignorance to our laws is one thing but ignorance to our own cultural values cannot be tolerated, in my opinion.

I have known a few refugees and these were not the sort of things that they would do. Though I do agree with you that cultural issues are the problem. I too understand what you mean and I agree. This should not be tolerated at all. Though as someone who assimilates very easily I do not see what the problem is with these people. When you understand the reasons for why they do things it makes more sense. Though as they are in a foreign land they should expect to adjust to the local ways not the other way around.

Mojisola

Frugalsod wrote: »

Genuine refugees do not do things like this.

You can be a genuine refugee and still be a murderer, rapist, thief or any other kind of criminal. There isn't a society in the world that doesn't have such people in it - when there is a mass movement of people, the bad come with the good.