Preparedness for when

moneyistooshorttomention

In this case - ie on a personal level that is - I guess the principle of deterrence is also a factor in protecting women from attacks like this.

The more its known that we can (and will) protect ourselves - be it by whatever method we personally have chosen (legal or otherwise) - then maybe some of the men likely to offend against us might think twice about doing so. Whilst they think the odds of us having any "protection" on us are very low - then they will see no reason not to attack us. But, when it can be seen that there is a noticeable chance that we will be able to defend ourselves (ie because a group of women have indeed done so) then perhaps/just perhaps a few would think twice about attacking us?

pineapple

fuddle wrote: »

If we start applying a sense of morality in law then we're on dangerous ground in my opinion.
.

I wasn't suggesting that.

fuddle

Not at all aimed at anyone pineapple. It was just my 2 penneth in the broader conversation.

nuatha

GreyQueen wrote: »

And the Police should be maintaining the laws of the land, not merely acting as a crime-recording authority. And it's so much easier to bully what is probably still a school-girl, almost certainly smaller, weaker and younger than her assailant, than it is to get heavy with the perpetrator, assuming he can ever be found.

I really wish I could argue that you're wrong.
In case I haven't been clear enough, my argument is that carrying legally justifiable items will not be less effective than some of the illegal items being discussed (lethal weapons excluded) and give the system less excuse to hassle the victim and not chase the perp.
Carrying a legitimate item and using it to defend yourself, doesn't mean that the perp won't be hurt/injured or worse and it certainly doesn't mean that the victim wont face charges potentially up to and including GBH/murder/manslaughter, it does mean that in a similar situation to the Danish one, the police have no reason to hassle a, probably distraught, young lady and make the whole event far, far worse. If they have the perp, then there may be issues to deal with depending on the injuries to the perp.
In that case I'm likely to contribute to the victim's defence fund.

...

Which means that I, and every other female, live our whole lives knowing we are both more likely to be the chosen victims for sexual assaults than men, and almost certainly will come off the worst for any altercation where force is used.

Some items can equalise the odds, to a modest degree, but we live in societies which make all the right noises about being opposed to violence against women without really addressing it. And which finds it much more easier to limit devices like pepper spray than to grasp the nettle.

Meanwhile, as I live in a place called the Real World, where some of my neighbours do not hestitate to raise their hands to their own partners, and others are ex-cons out on life-licenses, I continue to keep implements capable of inflicting blunt trauma to hand.

Because the cavalry won't be riding to save me in time if it all goes t*ts up and I will need force-magnifiers (weapons) to even the odds to the point where an attack would be survivable.

Relying on any sort of cavalry whether uniformed or bystander is probably the biggest mistake that its possible to make - evidence to date suggests that outside help almost never arrives on time.
Having some method to improve your odds is vital - both training in self defence and items that you can use to multiply the strength and skills you have. My only contention on this subject is carrying illegal items are likely to get you into additional problems.
I'd argue for the legalising of mace and pepper spray - if you're prepared to break the law and rape, murder or rob, then you are unlikely to have qualms about using illegal weapons to do so. Levelling the playing field seems the least the law could do - but asking for sensible laws is a complete and utter waste of time and energy.

If someone kicks my door in, they are four strides from my bedroom with only a flimsy hollow-core door between me and them. Which would be about as much use as a chocolate teapot.

Which is why the rolling pin is behind the pillow and almost under my hand as I sleep - there isn't enough room in the bedroom to make a baseball bat an effective club at such close quarters and trust me, I've researched it.;)

Hopefully the door gives you the seconds you need to grasp that rolling pin and be ready to use it.

fuddle

Legalising pepper sprays and the like would be a disaster in my eyes. I think we have too many Tom, D i c k and Harriets that would find their use amusing at the very least and use to intimidate vulnerable people at worst. The freedom to carry eggs and use as a method of manipulation or intimidation is very real. Imagine what could be if pepper spray was legalised.

It makes sense in a scenario of self defence but in every day life it would fall into the hands of the people who think it's fine to get their amusement from doing silly, and often dangerous, things to other people.

GreyQueen

nuatha wrote: »

Hopefully the door gives you the seconds you need to grasp that rolling pin and be ready to use it.

That's the exact idea, nuatha. A handful of seconds to kick off the bedding and get up on my feet with a short, heavy club ready to meet anyone coming through my bedroom door. The idea being one stunning blow and run like **** past them and into public areas screaming like a banshee and then hiding until Lauran Order can get there and take over.

Not to pummel someone's skull into a pulp and murder them. I don't want a death on my conscience, but I'd want that less than I want to be dead myself. Ultimately, my stance is that I'm far more attached to my own skin than I am to the wellbeing of someone who is putting me in fear of my life, and I will act accordingly.

fuddle, one of my acquaintances is half-blind in one eye. He was minding his own business in a pub when a stranger walked past him on his way to the lavvies and squirted some kind of acid into his eye from close range. No previous argy-bargy, no cross words beforehand, no explanation of why this should have happened. The consequences were lift-changing as well as agonising; the permanantly damaged sight cost him his then-career. The perpetrator was never caught.

Any supermarket and hardware store contains dozens of noxious substances which could be used to spray into an assailant's face.Everyone who can get access to a car battery has the ability to get enough acid to inflict devastating injuries. And that means everybody.

Official bans of things like pepper spray/ CS gas in small sizes for civilian use as self-defense tools don't stop acid attacks, or other caustic substances potentially being used by those who want to inflict injury for criminal reasons. We don't ban wine bottles because some people get cut by them in the hands of nutters.

Heck, should you ban bricks and concrete blocks because some idiots take them up onto road bridges and drop them into fast-moving traffic? There have been deaths and grievous injuries caused by such behaviour.

fuddle

We don't ban eggs either. We shouldn't be banning anything that people need to use in their lives and use responsibly. We should ban items that their sole purpose is to harm. That's my point of view.

I'm sorry that women can't carry pepper spray and use it as self defence. I would carry it if it did! The law can't be sensible. It has to work for the greater good and is selective because of that.

We've spoken about many items that can be carried as self defence and we've spoken about intent and motive. We could use WD40, aerosol or a hip flask in someones eyes. It's so easy but whatever we use, legal or otherwise, we still have to be accountable for our actions. By setting out not to break the law and not carrying something that's sole purpose is to harm we can reduce what is coming to us for trying to protect ourselves.

moneyistooshorttomention

As you say GQ - a wide variety of things can be used as weapons. Your rolling pin is a case in point. Ordinary kitchen knives are another one - hence I really don't see why some "knives" seem to be banned (which I didn't know when I bought one for countryside type pursuits - and I've kept it).

Goodness knows - a plain ordinary kitchen saucepan could be used to hit someone round the head. That being a thought that occurred to me recently when I wondered what fate would befall a friends boyfriend if I had to put up with someone like him for a month and decided I'd be at risk of belting him one with the nearest saucepan to hand:rotfl: (mygawd - she does pick 'em:cool:).

GreyQueen

I've thought of this, fuddle.

Small canisters of pepper spray, each with a unique identifying number, could be purchased from the Police by those who think they need them. On proof of ID, with each canister registered to an individual (or to their parent/ guardian if they are a minor ) who is held accountable for their whereabouts. An obligation to report a missing/ stolen canister to the Police immediately. And an obligation to report when/ if the cannister is ever deployed.

Pepper spray issued in a controlled way, with personal accountability back to the recipient, and with the opportunity to provide written material and Words of Advice on the consquences of misuse of the spray when issued. Far better than having black market pepper sprays in circulation or a slew of random DIY sprays which might cause permanant harm.

Righty, off to do some work, will be back this evening. GQ x

thriftwizard

Justice - i.e. the application of the law - should be tempered by mercy... it may theoretically be against the law to use whatever you have (legally) to hand to defend yourself if attacked, but any justice system worth defending should apply the principle of mercy and accept the mitigating circumstances.

In other news, here's a slightly scary article. I wonder how many people much under 50 have any knowledge of where to find these things & how to prepare them? We went to Crete long ago - one of OH's friends had married a local girl - and were enchanted by the local food, drink & (to our eyes) archaic customs; I hope for their sakes that enough of those have survived for people to keep from starving.