Preventing future wife taking 50% in possible future divorce.

chocolatefish

Hi LL

Tustastic makes some very good points. In the event of divorce you wish to cut yourself free of your OH but you cannot do that to your children... and if the children live with their mother...

I think your questions though have to be a lot broader than 'what happens if we get divorced?'.

Do you see you OH as an equal, as a potential partner in life?
Do you share the same life goals, financial and other ones?
If your positions were reversed, and she was the big earner while you were the slacker, how would you feel about her asking you to sign a pre-nup of the type you propose?
How will you run your financial life as a couple - will you have equal decision making power, or will you make the decisions as it's 'your' money?
What happens if you do decide you want to become a postman, or an artist or do anything else that is less well paid? Will your wife step up, re-skill herself, get a better job and support you while you do that?

Not easy ones to answer. For WIW, marriage to me is about equality, sharing and partnership. How this can happen in such an unequal relationship is difficult to see. But best of luck!

Londlad

Hi All..
Thank you for the words of wisdom.. and (besides 1 particular reply), for not biting my head off.
I value the expertise of people who have been down this road and are more familiar with the complexities of allocating assets should the unfortunate event of divorce ever come about...

We would have been together for almost a year next month.
Whist I say she isn't particularly good at saving, she isn't a big spender either. Perhaps I gave the wrong impression here. She certainly isn't in it for the money since I wasn't earning what I'm earning now when we started.
She is a kind, caring, religious and beautiful person, and I know that she would never enter the marriage hoping to profit from it in any way.
I also however, know things can turn sour. Love is indeed fickle and I'd hate myself for not having thought these things through before hand. I can also imagine that in bitterness (and advice from her own family).. things could change. I'm just investigating these kind of thoughts whilst its still early enough to do so.

My main intention was to find out about the usefulness of prenups. I do not know if she would be prepared to sign one though, and I'm reluctant to mention it at this stage. It would really only be once we are engaged I would take this matter to solicitors etc for advice.
As we are at least a year away from anything like that, MSE seemed like a good first step.

I would be the first to admit commitment doesn't come easy for me at this age, but then nothing in life is ever certain, and im sure one day the time would seem right. Just trying to work out if there are any options or things I should be trying to do at this early stage (besides stash cash in hidden boxes she doesn't know about).

She will never go onto become a high earner due to both lack of drive, ambition and qualifications. She dreams of family and part time work whilst raising children (which is fair enough). If we had kids, I'd be happy providing for them through life... I'm just worried that a judge deems the amounts far higher than what I would think were reasonable.

The general impression I have got from answers so far is that this area of law is a tricky one. Legal advice would be the way forward as prenups can not be relied upon, but for now, I think it is perhaps too early to seek such advice.
Perhaps once we are engaged (or I am seriously considering asking).

Thanks for your replies... The post got a better response than I thought it would. I don't really know how to talk to her about it, as she gets the wrong impression when I bring it up.
Her immediate defensive reaction is that if I worry about money so much, I don't love her... so I back down so not to upset her (and myself in the process). Difficult times are ahead.
Thanks again all.

Edit: just to add (saw in a later reply)... I would be looking after the finances as I am good with money. She is welcome to have her own credit card, and her own account (as she does at the moment). I see her as equal, but just in very different ways. We complement eachother greatly..
I have the common sense, she has the sensitivity. It is much like my parents relationship to be honest, which has lasted strongly for donkeys years. Im unwilling to consider giving up on it over something like money... but I would like to do my best to protect myself if the worst were to happen.
Fingers crossed, this isn't something I would ever have to worry about. But I don't live life crossing my fingers...

p.s.) Im encouraging her to start saving.. shes putting a little away, and has opened her first ISA. Slowly its rubbing off, so hopefully I'm reducing the potential problem already with these sort of methods.

Dumyat

I'm sorry but if you are planning your divorce and you're not even married it doesnt sound quite right to me.

to be honest if you were my partner I would be devastated at some of the stuff you've said there. Do you really love her? So what if her goal in life is to stay home and look after your children....its the most important job in the world.

marriage is about love and respect, its not about running a business.

Londlad

dogrose wrote: »

I'm sorry but if you are planning your divorce and you're not even married it doesnt sound quite right to me.
to be honest if you were my partner I would be devastated at some of the stuff you've said there. Do you really love her? So what if her goal in life is to stay home and look after your children....its the most important job in the world.
marriage is about love and respect, its not about running a business.

Ah. Now that is the kind of response I was expecting. Thank you earlier posters for not all being like this.
Dogrose... I haven't at any stage said I didn't love her. Nor have I said I had any problem with her raising the children. In fact, this is how I was brought up, and the way that seems right and natural.
Things like this would upset her, and I tend not to talk about it infront of her. People treat relationships in different ways. Some are 100% love, some are 100% friendship. Some are based on physical feelings and little else. You can't apply your experience or your feelings to everyones scenario. When I am with her, this stuff doesn't enter my mind. My heart leads the way...
However, when I read about some of the awful stories in the paper about city workers and their terrible divorces, my brain worries about this sort of thing. Are you suggesting that these people didn't truly love eachother when they married?

I'm sorry you disagree, but I really think it would be stupid to be so naiive as to not even think of things like this.
I am happy things in life have worked out so well for you that you can not imagine thinking of such things. Unfortunately, not everyone is so fortunate... and I'd like to think I would have done everyhing before hand to make for an agreeable settlement. I often find that people with this kind of response never had to ask these sorts of questions. They married people with similar backgrounds/class/financial status and the matter never arose. It is easy to disapprove when you haven't been in the same situation.

I sometimes wish I was a hopeless romantic with no other cares in the world, but this simply isn't me... and never will be. Please try to understand everyone is different.

Thank you for your input nonetheless, but it isn't one I find terribly helpful (nor I imagine would have Paul McCartney... years ago). I realise now this isn't really something anyone can help with (besides myself) but thank you for taking the time to listen to what might have been a silly forum question. If the time comes that it worries me enough to seek legal advice, this is the course I shall take. Hopefully love will take over and it won't matter... and all will go well for the rest of our lives. If not.. well, it will be too late by then. Whatever 'Your Honour' says, she gets.
Perhaps I will become a postman after all.

Fondue_2

Hi Londlad

Refraining from being in any way judgemental, prenups have v little value in English law. At the end of the day, the Courts are interested only in ensuring that both parties get out in equal shares what they put into the marriage. As other posters have said, if kids are involved you will struggle not to have them living in the style they are accustomed too if there is enough money within the marriage to do this. If you don't have kids then any settlement will better reflect the input you have had, but if your future wife can establish that you were able to have a successful career because she provided support at home then she will still be entitled to a decent proportion of the proceeds of your success.

clipboard2

Hi Londlad!
Your brain is right. As for your heart, if you were experiencing that 'forever' type of attraction for this girl, it would be YOU pressurising her for marriage and commitment right now.

You are a catch, and she knows it. I am sorry, but all my experience tells me she is after your money, lovely as I am sure she is now as a person.
You mention that you have 'such different opinions on money'. This is a red flag, and a major predictor of divorce.

From my knowledge of friends/colleagues divorces, where the man is the high earner (woman has kids + little/no income/assets) the man has been SCREWED to the tune of up to 70-80% of his assets being awarded to his ex-wife and kids...she can take your pension, life assurance policy, house..AND she can always come back to the court for more years later if she refuses to accept a 'clean break' at the time of the divorce settlement.

I know men who are now in their 40's and 50's who are bitter, twisted and BROKE (and they used to be earning 6 figure salaries) as a direct result of divorce settlements.

Do not marry this woman. Live together instead - that is the only way to safeguard your hard earned cash, in the event of a split. If she doesn't like this situation, then it is not you she wants....
And take responsibility for contraception...yes, women still claim to be pregnant to get a man to agree to marriage.

Take care! CB2

Poppy9

You don't know what the future holds for you. You could find yourself unemployed in the future due to ill-health, redundancy, etc and she maybe the only breadwinner what would happen to your pre-nupt then?

Personally as a woman I wouldn't marry any man who was planning ahead in case of divorce. It just wouldn't feel right.

jessegeller

Hiya

As awkward and as uncomfortable as it might be I think you need to have a good talk with your girlfriend to find out her views on how she thinks things will pan out money wise. Much better to do it now and see if you can work differences out (if there turn out to be any major ones) than to find yourself on the other side of an engagement and have all of this blow up then.

I personally believe you should take out of a marriage what you put in and it drives me crazy hearing about women who get given huge chunks of partners earnings when they haven't themselves earned it - you would think they'd rather support themselves than depend on an ex but its a strange world.

If you have only been together roughly a year its still quite early days to be thinking of marriage. I am guessing she is a similar age to you so there is no huge rush for marriage and kids really. (just my opinion of course - but I'm not the broody type so perhaps it is of a more urgent need for your partner)

I don't think you planning "just in case" reflects a doomed relationship at all. I'm all for planning for the worst case scenario - I hate being dropped in the poop without a plan in place to get me out of it asap!

Hope you manage to sort this out - and hopefully you are worrying for no reason

Lisa

pennypuppy

Ok honey, my son is 20 and I will say exactly the same to you as him.
First of all as a mother I would be proud of a son who can write what you did. I don't mean the good earnings (though they are brill), I mean the logical way you are seeing life. You sound realistic and understandably cautious. Definitely see a lawyer and in the meantime do not get her pregnant unless intentionally. You may be in love but you are still young.If she is in love then its normal for her to want to get pregnant and married.Just do not be pushed into it. Also, 'love' often dies down after the first lustful year and it can take a few to know its for keeps.As you know the kind of job you have will lead you to work long hours with colleagues and that can be problematic.To be really cruel about it your remark about her not having no qualifications sounds to me like its a niggle that could become a real issue. Does it irritate you? I am not slagging you for it, I just can't help thinking her views on some things to do with children may be out of sync with your own. I don't want to encourage you to look for trouble but I do think you are being wise.Good luck and stay grounded.

pennypuppy

Also if you are in banking at the senior levels you have to do big dinner parties very often. It's a real keep up with the jones (or Rothchilds) world.It is another culture and if she doesn't fit you may end up reconsidering things. A friend who is a banker goes to China and the wives are sent on courses there to get to know the culture/cooking etc. It's a profession in itself and a very educated based one, the wives are normally former career ladies themselves.It is not a wag style life.
What if you got your girl to start studying something, night classes or something? Has she gcse's?