Preventing future wife taking 50% in possible future divorce.

Sus1e

I have just sat down and read this whole thread. The first thing that came into my mind was TROLL as well.........

If this is genuine then I appologise.

tankgirl2000_2

Whats a troll,have I been wound-up?? Oh well, wouldn't have been the first time! :cool:

iglimpse

chocolatefish wrote: »

If your positions were reversed, and she was the big earner while you were the slacker, how would you feel

I am sure you did not mean to say that all those who are not big earners are slackers. Or to imply that those not on big salaries, lack drive and enthusiasm.

Please don't propose / get engaged then mention, or seek legal advice. If she did not agree to legal advice or objected to the principle...? cancel engagement, not pleasant. Sort it all out now.

Unlike a lot of people here, you have a choice. New precedents are set every week, that is why you need expert advice on prenups. Never rely on word of mouth, you are making a serious decision, don't do that on potentially out of date advice.

Before all that, you need to decide if you are ready to commit to this woman. It will all flow from that

Paul_Varjak

I guess if the UK follows the American model then the Engish courts will begin to accept pre-nuptials as the norm. At the moment, however, I don't think the judiciary feels kindly to have their authority usurped by such agreements and will, in general, ignore them.

If you divorced after a year or two with no children then such agreements may be considered by the courts. Maybe your approach to money (saving - not spending) would also be considered as your wife could not then claim that she had grown used to a certain expensive lifestyle. On the other hand, it may just mean her share of your fortune is just bigger!

One thing is noted from your posts - no mention of any Will! Maybe you also need to consider your possible future wife and children in a Will at the same time as any pre-nuptial agreement may be drawn up?

Londlad

Wow... quite a response. Sorry for no reply from myself until now but I dont get in from work until around 8-9pm. I have read all your comments (every last one) and have a few replies to some. I think I'll try to put the thread to bed now, so thank you all for your contributions.

clipboard2 wrote: »

I am sorry, but all my experience tells me she is after your money. Do not marry this woman. Live together instead

You really aren't in a position to make this kind of judgement, and it just simply isn't true. She loves me, and I love her. I thoroughly believe that and want to make the relationship work at all costs. If I can't protect my pre-nuptual funds then sobeit... It won't disuade me from marriage.
I am by no means perfect myself...
I honestly think I am the one who is netting the catch, and not the other way around. She is my sweet heart, and that won't change.

PennyPuppy wrote:

To be really cruel about it your remark about her not having no qualifications sounds to me like its a niggle that could become a real issue. Does it irritate you? What if you got your girl to start studying something, night classes or something? Has she gcse's?

Her lack of career ambition (besides stay at home mum) was something I initially found difficult to get my head around, sure... but I appreciate that my job isn't more important in any way. To be honest, her is far more important. Who cares whether a bank makes a few more million thanks to my efforts, when her efforts (and hopefully mine) can shape a future human being that we will love unconditionally forever.
I am encouraging her to save and study, and she is now doing a home course in teaching/nursery care. I love the fact she is trying, and love her all the more for it. She has one or two GCSE's... but I don't rate people by their school grades.

PrincessTaylor wrote:

Your gf may get quite miffed if you mention the fact that she earns a low salary.

No, she wouldn't. She understands the differences as well as I do, and never once have I tried to suggest that higher earnings = better person. This is a ridiculous notion and I get the impression the purpose of my post has been lost on some.

MPython wrote:

I'm not at all sure you need financial advise, more like relationship advice.

Not so... Our relationship is a loving and stable one and please god, will continue to be. I was simply interested in the availability of what I like to call 'Defensive Financial Positions', to protect myself should anything bad happen. My investments are spread for similar reasons... you hedge against the bad times.

Jobbingmusician wrote:

You say your GF spends all her money while you save all yours. Is this true, or is it just that she is on the breadline, so normal spending (with perhaps the odd treat) uses all her income, while normal spending (with perhaps the odd treat) means that you are saving a packet?

It is true her family are more 'on the breadline' so it must of course be harder to save.. but relatively speaking, factoring all that into account, as a ratio... she still spends a fair chunk. I am just abnormal when it comes to spending. I literally spend nothing, ever.... so in fairness, she (or anyone else) would have a hard time matching me. Still, in life I am sure we will find a good balance, so this doesn't really concern me.
I was simply interested in what I could do to protect myself should the worst happen... I was not interested in finding out how best to limit her spending habits (or increase mine).

My thanks go to TankGirl for a good post. I appreciate the world is going down hill, and thoughts like the ones I have aren't helping matters.
The fact is, years ago and generations ago, I doubt people even thought about these things.
However.
Years ago, I'm not sure divorces were quite so rife. Also, newspapers didn't carry the types of thought provoking 'big payout' headlines as they do today.

Lastly. All who say that I am too young are quite right. I am just planning ahead (perhaps too eagerly). She doesn't want to move in with me before marriage however due to religious reasons and respect for her parents wishes.

I have come to the conclusion that I should either:
- Seek a little legal advice should the time come and I am still concerned.
- Not worry about it so much, as there isn't too much one can do using advice from MSE alone.

Finally.. I just want to ensure everyone:
I DO LOVE THIS WOMAN!!! I am sorry if I ever gave the impression otherwise, and thank everyone for the positive replies.

And darling... if you somehow find your way onto MSE and work out its your teddy doing the posting...
I love you baby. I know you are used to all this by now. xxx
Chat to you in the morning. xxx

Londlad

Paul_Varjak wrote: »

I guess if the UK follows the American model then the Engish courts will begin to accept pre-nuptials as the norm. At the moment, however, I don't think the judiciary feels kindly to have their authority usurped by such agreements and will, in general, ignore them.

If you divorced after a year or two with no children then such agreements may be considered by the courts. Maybe your approach to money (saving - not spending) would also be considered as your wife could not then claim that she had grown used to a certain expensive lifestyle. On the other hand, it may just mean her share of your fortune is just bigger!

One thing is noted from your posts - no mention of any Will! Maybe you also need to consider your possible future wife and children in a Will at the same time as any pre-nuptial agreement may be drawn up?

Thanks Paul. Thats a useful post also.
Its the "Maybe's", and the "On the other hand's" that I'd be interested in knowing answers to, but it is clear all cases are judged on their individual merit and there is little that can really be done before a marriage in terms of planning. Time to stop using my brain, turn the heart back on, and throw caution to the wind. If things go sour, my fate will be in the hands of the law and a judge. Thanks all...
It was a difficult post to reply with helpful answers to so thank you all for trying (and on the whole, not biting my head off). They have all given me food for thought though. Take care.

Paul_Varjak

Londlad wrote: »

"Time to stop using my brain, turn the heart back on, and throw caution to the wind. If things go sour, my fate will be in the hands of the law and a judge."

I think you have now hit the nail on the head! In your work as a banker I guess you take risks, perhaps you need to take a few risks in your love life too? By the way you speak of your GF it sounds to me that she is worth the risk!

But, if you are still thinking of a pre-nuptial agreement, I think it is better to raise that issue earlier in the relationship (rather than later) unless, of course, you think that in a year or two down the line one is not needed!

Londlad

Paul_Varjak wrote: »

But, if you are still thinking of a pre-nuptial agreement, I think it is better to raise that issue earlier in the relationship (rather than later) unless, of course, you think that in a year or two down the line one is not needed!

No... I agree prenuptuals aren't the route to take.
And if no other route is available, it probably isn't worth taking one (and certainly not worth risking losing her over it).
Fingers crossed this would have all been unnecessary. Thanks for your replies. Thanks also to the PM's and the Marriage proposals... (only kidding). I was just hoping for simple and easy steps that one can take to help protect certain assets, but I guess I knew all along that such steps didn't exist. Too bad... this is the law of the land.
Like it... or move elsewhere.

Katmc2k

hey

you say you are abnormal about spending....well a wee bit maybe? IMHO lol. while its brilliant to be a saver you only live once and not for nearly long enough! you should be seeing a lot of the world and living it up a little bit while you have the opportunity (ie before kids!) you love your GF and the experience I have of being in love with my OH is that I spend everything I can on him! ok, at the moment its only £15 a week from childminding (i'm a poor student type) but i wouldn't begrudge spending £150 or £1500 if i had it. i remember when i earned my first pay packet at 15 and I blew the lot taking my mum dad and two siblings to the cinema, it was a great feeling and I knew they wouldn't 'take it for granted.' so spoil her, and yourself! you both deserve it, (and there's lots of ways to be MS about spoiling yourselves) or maybe you could book her onto a course in something she is interested in ie photography, sculpture etc but maybe she doesn't have the budget for it?

oh, and like another poster pointed out, it is an awful lot easier to spend £15k than £50k even if you are only buying basics. i know you have worked it out 'as a ratio' but bear it in mind...

bye for now...

EDIT: re-read your post and see she is doing a course in nursery/teaching type thing. this is what my mother does and despite being the brightest, most gifted person i have ever met, she will never earn more than £14k. its not a nice thought that sometimes the people who work hardest are not rewarded financially but thems the breaks!

Londlad

Katmc2k wrote: »

while its brilliant to be a saver you only live once and not for nearly long enough! you should be seeing a lot of the world and living it up a little bit while you have the opportunity

I get this from people all the time throughout my life, and it gets boring.
I enjoy saving. I take pleasure not spending... others take pleasure spending.
I appreciate it is hard for you to get your head around, but I am not limiting my life or forgoing things I want to do by saving.
Anyway... this is entirely off topic, so is irrelevant.

Katmc2k wrote:

the experience I have of being in love with my OH is that I spend everything I can on him!

Again, you have clearly missed the point in my post and it annoys me you insinuate that I would not want to spend money on her whilst we are in a relationship. (my v.day gift was very expensive, not that I should need to justify any of this to you anyway). I don't spend much on myself... but that isn't the case on her (or kids I might have). What else am I saving for if not that?

My original post was about taking defensive financial positions (assuming such things existed) pre marriage, just in case the relationship were to end on a sour note.

Where have I stated that I do not take pleasure buying her gifts?
I stated that together, we reach a good balance on spending/saving. I am not cheap or tight when there is something I want to buy. There just aren't many things I want in life. I have few posessions, and am happy like that.

Katmc2k wrote:

this is what my mother does and despite being the brightest, most gifted person i have ever met, she will never earn more than £14k. its not a nice thought that sometimes the people who work hardest are not rewarded financially but thems the breaks!

Thats great for your mum. Again, entirely irrelevant.
You write as if to suggest that I insinuate low earners aren't bright, or gifted...

You clearly haven't been reading the things I have said... or perhaps I have not made them clear (although others have understood where I am coming from).
Thanks to all the other posters, but this one I am not so appreciative of.
Off to bed now, so no further replies from myself for 20 hours. I think enough has been said anyway to draw the thread to a close.

Thanks for the wise words.
My initial query about the defensive financial bits and bobs seems to be a no go area (since none exist)... and pre nups seem useless and could cause hurt. This isn't a route I'd want to take.

My Conclusion: Marry in a few years if still in love, and hope for the best. Do all you can to make the relationship work and worry about protecting assets if and when the time comes. Hopefully it never will.
There is little one can do before hand for protection anyway.
I'm still not entirely happy with the way the law works in SOME cases, but divorce settlements aren't an exact science and are judged on individual merits. This isn't something that can really be planned for.



FIN!