HSBC refuse to refund debit card fraud

Wywth

philD wrote: »

Are HSBC being reasonable?

Reasonable? I don't think they know the meaning of the word.

A bunch of bankers, the lot of them, if you ask me! :mad:

teffers

Phil - Sorry this has happened to you.

In reality, from HSBC's point of view you failed to protect your pin then, after that you failed to protect your card. You've then told them you suspect people that you had befriended.

I've been ripped off by someone I befriended in the past and it's a real !!!!!!!.

It's !!!! this has happened to you Phil but it's massively unlikely you'll get your money back from the bank.

Voyager2002

liam8282 wrote: »

OP what you have failed to consider is, anybody could reenact your scenario with friends in an attempt to defraud the bank.

I agree that the only chance you have of seeing your money again is by pressing ahead with the police.

Even then I doubt you will see your money again, or if the friends will be charged. All friends E & J have to do is say you gave them your bank card and your pin and asked them to withdraw the money, which you then spent. No way of proving anything.

All in all, in no way is this HSBC's responsibility.

Sure, a group of friends could reenact this scenario. I hope and trust that the police would investigate, and the punishment for all involved would be extremely severe.

ruggedtoast

I usually have Cardguard insurance from HSBC which protects misuse of cards but this time the renewal notice arrived and said they have to tell me by law that regardless of their polict all banks are obligated by law to refund all fraudulent transactions, less £50, no matter for how much.

This is apparently unless you have been "extraordinarily careless" (or unusually careless or something).

There is presumably no definition of what that is and I would be willing to bet that most banks would try and apply it to acts of carelessness which were just careless, rather than extraordinarily careless. Nevertheless I am afraid OP your vignette would probably fall under most peoples definition of "pretty careless".

People you dont know well who are dodgy and troubled, booze, a girl flirting with you who you are trying to take under your wing in some way, in your house.

If I were you I would just try and be grateful that the limit was only £500 a day and that you found our right away, and chalk it up to experience.

Voyager2002

Two things that you need to do:

Firstly, make a formal statement to the police and press charges, but make it clear to the perpetrators that you would be happy to make a statement in mitigation so that their sentences would be relatively lenient. One hopes that the court would request social reports and investigate ways to help them, as well as punish them.

Secondly, write to the HSBC complaints department. Make it clear that your debit card was stolen, and that you did not give anyone access to your PIN, and certainly did not keep it written down anywhere. Under these circumstances the bank is liable for all but the first 25 pounds of the loss.

bored_at_home

phil, you have absolutely no chance of getting anywhere with hsbc.
regardless if e read your pin over your shoulder ,it is up to you to protect that pin number from anyone even shoulder surfers. hindsight is a wonderful thing when you are trying to help someone and they are actually theiving scumbags.
you can make a claim via the police but it wont change hsbcs stance. all it will do is get e prosecuted.

i had very similar via my business account a few years ago, by a trusted employee who shoulder surfed me for my pin, then took the card out my coat pocket a week later and helped himself to funds out the machine. stupid man used the cashpoint just up from my house straight after leaving here , when id just returned from europe, not getting out the van from france to my driveway so it was obvious it had been taken from my pocket by him. it was only when i told him there was a camera in the cashpoint and the police could get the recording he fessed up.
i didnt prosecute for the 60 quid (all it would give him ) he took when his wife was pregnant, id av gave it him if hed just asked, he lost his job though and got no referance.

you knew the card was out your possession , and should have rang the 24hr line and put a temp stop on it the instant it left your house, so you are liable for the loss.

philD_2

I previously worked as an IT contractor for the Home Office writing systems for offender management. I had to be security cleared for this position. I'm not the sort of person who gets involved in fraud etc.

I was expecting replies such as:

1. Do you regularly withdraw large amounts of cash from the ATM - IE was this withdrawal of £470 exceptional.

2. Have the bank looked at the video from the ATM

The bottom line is the card was stolen by person E. I assume that person J watched me enter the PIN at Asda (an assumption). My card and phone were posted through my letter box 10 mins later by which time the money had already been taken. The bank were informed and the police were informed.

lovinituk

philD wrote: »

I was expecting replies such as:

1. Do you regularly withdraw large amounts of cash from the ATM - IE was this withdrawal of £470 exceptional.

2. Have the bank looked at the video from the ATM

What difference would that have made?

philD wrote: »

The bottom line is the card was stolen by person E. I assume that person J watched me enter the PIN at Asda (an assumption). My card and phone were posted through my letter box 10 mins later by which time the money had already been taken. The bank were informed and the police were informed.

You already said that!

meer53

From HSBC's point of view..

You call them to say £470 taken from your account. Your card and PIN were used. You are still in possession of your card. You tell HSBC that you know who took your card and used it and that they returned your card to you 10 minutes after the cash withdrawal.

Why on earth would you think they would refund you ? How do they know that you didn't say to your "friends" "go and take out some money from my account, bring my card back, then i'll call HSBC and tell them it's fraud and they'll refund me" ?

I'm not disputing that what you say is true, but look at it from the banks point of view. There is absolutely no chance of a refund from anyone.

liam8282

philD wrote: »

I previously worked as an IT contractor for the Home Office writing systems for offender management. I had to be security cleared for this position. I'm not the sort of person who gets involved in fraud etc.

I was expecting replies such as:

1. Do you regularly withdraw large amounts of cash from the ATM - IE was this withdrawal of £470 exceptional.

2. Have the bank looked at the video from the ATM

The bottom line is the card was stolen by person E. I assume that person J watched me enter the PIN at Asda (an assumption). My card and phone were posted through my letter box 10 mins later by which time the money had already been taken. The bank were informed and the police were informed.

It doesn't really matter what replies you were expecting, these are the replies you are getting. Also if you were expecting those replies, perhaps these are better because they are telling you the truth, not what you want to hear.

Also, because you do not like the replies, doesn't mean they will change the more you repeat yourself.

This is a civil matter, the police probably won't take it any further, as I said before E&J only have to say you gave them your pin and card, how can you prove otherwise?, HSBC won't give you your money back.

This is between you and your friends, a civil matter. If you want your money back your only realistic option will probably be to sue them through the small claims court and it will be upto you to prove the events as you described. IMO impossible.