Tutition Fees Argument(Ex-Student Loans)

Torby

tr3mor wrote: »

Well, if you would look for reasonable accommodation in a green and leafy expensive area then you're deluded. Go live in Byker or Heaton, plenty of cheap houses there!

And there are plenty of other ways to get around Newcastle - buses, bicycle, shank's pony.

Byker?? how many students do you know lived there....Heaton yes....you'll find students tend to live in "student" areas and landlords have a captive audience in that respect....6 students in one house £300 a month rent each....you could nearly get a 2 bed quayside appt for that (£600 p/m)....but thats right....they don't rent to students....

If everyone in Newcastle uses bus or shanks pony....why's the metro chock full of people....and if you want a bus and have to go into uni twice a day, and then perhaps want to go into town later that night....thats 6 single bus trips....perhaps thats why they do a student rate bus pass as well....

my daughter has been there now for 3 years, is graduating this summer, then has 2 more years in Northumbria doing Law.

so perhaps with your knowledge of Newcastle, perhaps a student there, you could enlighten us all about where you lived, how you travelled etc....and we can all save money....

anyway I was only trying to tell him once he leaves halls he's in for another shock
as regards costs....unless you can advise him differently?

tr3mor

Torby wrote: »

Byker?? how many students do you know lived there....Heaton yes....you'll find students tend to live in "student" areas and landlords have a captive audience in that respect....6 students in one house £300 a month rent each....you could nearly get a 2 bed quayside appt for that (£600 p/m)....but thats right....they don't rent to students....

If everyone in Newcastle uses bus or shanks pony....why's the metro chock full of people....and if you want a bus and have to go into uni twice a day, and then perhaps want to go into town later that night....thats 6 single bus trips....perhaps thats why they do a student rate bus pass as well....

I haven't studied in Newcastle. I spent 10 years of my life living in Northumberland though.

Why would anyone get on the metro to get from Jemond to the Uni?
Jesmond is easily within 20 mins walk of the uni, Heaton is just a bus ride away.

The metro is used by people coming into Newcastle from further out - the coast, Gateshead, Gosforth/Airport directions. No one in their right might would get on the metro and get off it one stop later.

impy78

tr3mor wrote: »

Surely that is the whole point of deadpan humour? It's not very funny if the comedian can't keep a straight face. Just like it wouldn't have been funny if I'd pointed out I was joking before making that post.

This is true, however, those commedians have the advantage of us being able to see them, and us being aware that they are performing in a comedy show. So then we realise it is a joke, where as in a forum, we cannot do this, so the joke is lost. But again I apologise. It was a joke.

I never claimed that being poor was so terrible. Surely it is other posters claiming that being poor is so terrible that they need assistance and subsidies.

Well, I thought the vision of a person who loves being in debt and watching ITV daytime was pretty terrible (you picture, not mine), although not true. But as it was joke, it now doesn't matter.

If you're genuinely happy for someone to get a car from Mummy and Daddy why would you not be genuinely happy that they got their tuition fees paid for them?

I am. As I said in my previous post, I agree with you on that. The OP's expectations of how they are going to pay are unrealistic. The OP has three choices:

a) Let Parents pay
b) Get a job and pay for it him/herself
c) Take out loans to cover it and be in debt, like everyone else is doing.

You seem to be of the opinion that if someone can't afford something then someone else should pay.

The very poorest students need that kind of help - if someone is brilliant academically, and they get into a brilliant university, then yes, we should be helping them. As someone who received a grant (but also had a job, had parental contributions, worked every day of my holidays and had a student loan), and as a taxpayer, I am only too willing to help someone in the same position I was, back then.

I'm not going to decide anything. I can look around me at uni. I can see which of my classmates are attending lectures, putting in the effort and coming out with good grades. I can also see which are sitting around at home drinking and smoking dope and will come out after 3 years with a third if they're lucky.

I quite agree, I hate slackers, they should be booted off the course - what is the point of their being there. It really used to annoy me, that whilst I put in so much effort on my course, there were people who barely attended (and when they did, they may as well not have bothered), and they were allowed to get away with it.

I wasn't implying anything about the relative value of different subjects. But as an aside it is much cheaper to provide an arts degree than it is to provide a science degree. Hence arts degrees would probably be cheaper if the prices reflected the cost of providing the course.

Somebody please tell my postgrad school that!!! (hee hee!) I've just paid £13000 to attend this course (though it is worth every penny).

No, I didn't get a grant or a dada, I had to take out loans... but it is the best decision I ever made.

Very well done to you! You're simply contradicting yourself though. If you were quite happy to be where you were then you wouldn't be accepting handouts for a "free" education.

I am currently (as above, not accepting a "free education" at the moment, am proud to be providing my own) when I was at Uni (a long time ago) EVERYONE got a grant and NO-ONE paid fees, not even the very richest of the students. I have to admit, if I was going now, I would just get a loan like everyone else, I don't really see the problem with that. However, people who are worse of than me, wouldn't be able to afford to go, as they receive precious little maintainance by comparison to what we had. Even in those days, my uni made a PROFIT. Which is why when Leeds took them over, they closed down the college and took their students in....because they were profitable

When I said "I am quite happy where I am, I meant in terms of I don't desire to have rich parents, and be rolling in money, though I have nothing against those people who are. I did not mean physical location, or doing my a-levels for the rest of my life.

1. University is cheap - it costs much more to provide the course than you pay in fees, and you get ample assistance from student loans. If you need more money then get a job (or rob a bank), don't come on here whinging that you're put off because you're averse to debt.

2. You get out of uni what you put in - if you think three years of your life !!!!ed down the toilet is a good use of your time then good for you! All of us decent students will be laughing when you're stuck in a call centre.

I quite agree with all of the above.

As someone who had a lot of help through uni, I am so grateful, and will put as much back into our society as I humanly can, as I see that as a favour from the state, and I thank Aneurin Bevan for that.

I don't know how you quantify flushing my life down the loo, or indeed if you are even referring to me. But I work very hard in everything I do. Yes, it's a fact that the industry I'm going into has 97% unemployment, but there a lot of lazy and incompetent people in my industry, so that accounts for quite a lot of that!

To put this in context I am not rich or spoilt. My Mother is a widowed teacher who has supported me and my 16 year old sister the best she could. My late father left school after O-levels to become a lab-technician, he worked hard in the same company for 30 years working his way up the ladder. My grandfathers were a steel worker and an HGV driver respectively. It's hardly a bloody silver spoon.

No it isn't, and good for you and your Mum for getting you where you are. My only objection to anything you said, was the inference that poor people are poor because they want to be, and that they are not very clever. But as it was a joke, well it doesn't matter.

I fully agree that the OP has to make some kind of decision hereas his/her expectations are unrealistic.

Torby

tr3mor wrote: »

I haven't studied in Newcastle. I spent 10 years of my life living in Northumberland though.

Why would anyone get on the metro to get from Jemond to the Uni?
Jesmond is easily within 20 mins walk of the uni, Heaton is just a bus ride away.

The metro is used by people coming into Newcastle from further out - the coast, Gateshead, Gosforth/Airport directions. No one in their right might would get on the metro and get off it one stop later.

I take it from your reply then you live in a socially deprived area with no student life in Manchester, you walk everywhere (don't need the old Peugeot then) and everyone who uses the metro in Newcastle are out of their minds, its handy when you have to "shuttle" back and forward...and to date buses are still not free.

As for "Gateshead is a cr@phole"... would have though a uni education would make it easier to give the question a more informative and mature response.


"To put this in context I am not rich or spoilt."....I think you have to examine more closely just exactly how you define "spoilt"....your attitude and approach to other posters here on the thread probably says more about you being "spoilt" than your own definition...but isn't that usually the case....
"rich"....again thats relevant isn't it....without specifics, its hard to determine...but suffice to say....your upbringing and circumstances were better than some people I know....

Finally, in my opinion ( and it is mine, unless any other poster feels the same) your responses seem to be the result of some deep seated problem, some sort of chip on your shoulder, perhaps you feel anger about your father passing and your widowed mum bringing you up, perhaps you feel you missed out on something? Misdirection is not a good thing....and just so you know, my father died when I was 16, he worked most of his life in the Civil Service on leaving the Royal Air Force after the war, he received the D.F.C but refused to use the initials after his name like some because he felt it was demeaning to the award and an unfair use it to gain advantage. He believed my mother should stay at home to be with the children, I had already lost a brother and sister. My mother was unable to work so there was little if any money in our family, I put myself through Uni. We didn't have a car, we didn't even have a colour TV and only got a phone in 1978.....so again....examine your description or your definition of what is "rich and spoilt"

Time to lose the chip and become an all-round better person....IMHO

lucien_roach

Will people stop suggesting i get a job now i already said i would on the first page

i canny be arsed to argue much more about tutition fees since i'm not gonna back down and nor are you.

I see education as a right and considering how much money which is wasted by the government and the amount spent on projects which noone supports except the most powerful, why students should not be allowed to study free.

melbury

I think it is a good thing if people go to university a) if they genuinely need a degree for their chosen career (which is how it used to be!) or b) if they are intelligent, not just as a way to avoid getting a job for a further three years, even if it does mean getting into debt.

Now that nearly every polytechnic and college in the country has built an accommodation block and are called "universities" it has rather diminished the relevance of a degree. When I was young A-levels were regarded as a very high qualification and got you into almost all careers, only certain professions required a degree, which is why so few people went to university and thus there were grants. Now of course so many people have degrees, which automatically makes them think that they deserve a higher starting salary because they are so clever, degrees have been devalued beyond recognition - they are basically two a penny aren't they? So what next? Will it only be people with Masters or PhD's who stand out? If so, nobody will be starting work until they are in their late twenties!!

I am not being critical, just realistic. There are many other ways to get on in the workplace and end up with a good job - going to university is not the only option.

Oldernotwiser

I agree with Melbury; I don't think that people realise that, for example, teaching didn't become an all graduate profession until the 70s and you didn't need "A" levels to train as a teacher at that point (although most people did have them).
Many more people may have degrees nowadays but that doesn't mean that they're better educated. Ever higher qualifications are being asked for because everything's been devalued. To pretend that education has improved or that people have become more intelligent is a con trick that ranks with the Emperor's new clothes. Unfortunately, too many people have a vested interest in maintaining the status quo - not only politicians.