Tutition Fees Argument(Ex-Student Loans)

lucien_roach

My Argument

1) If more People are educated better, they get better Jobs
2) Better Jobs = More Tax Paid
3) Amount Paid on Taxes > Uni Costs

on 35k a year tax is 40%, 0.4 x 35000 = 14000, in two years that is higher than the average student debt

4) Paying for uni lowers number of applicants

Uni should therefore be free because it is good for the country in the long run like an investment

New I meant tution fees, but i still think the maitenance loan is too low, students shouldn't really have to support themselves with part-time jobs to be honest.

:beer:cheers for lucien's amazingness:beer:

no economists are allowed to rip my argument to shreds or i will hunt them down

GoldenEye

lucien_roach wrote: »

My Argument

1) If more People are educated better, they get better Jobs
2) Better Jobs = More Tax Paid
3) Amount Paid on Taxes > Uni Costs

on 35k a year tax is 40%, 0.4 x 35000 = 14000, in two years that is higher than the average student debt

4) Paying for uni lowers number of applicants

Uni should therefore be free because it is good for the country in the long run like an investment

:beer:cheers for lucien's amazingness:beer:

no economists are allowed to rip my argument to shreds or i will hunt them down

BTW, Tax is calculated by banding e.g. the first £4000 is tax-free.

I do feel sorry for your predicament. I used to agree with what you quoted... Uni costs should be free. I don't anymore. There are too many graduates and the government is totally unrealistic with their demands to have 50% of all school leavers at Uni. There are not enough graduate jobs available. The apprenticeship route is the best option at the moment because you gain practical and theoretical skills and can still gain a degree whilst in employment.

I think University should be related to demand from the economy. The education system is a mess and I feel young people getting into University right now have it tougher than past graduates.

lucien_roach

GoldenEye wrote: »

BTW, Tax is calculated by banding e.g. the first £4000 is tax-free.

I do feel sorry for your predicament. I used to agree with what you quoted... Uni costs should be free. I don't anymore. There are too many graduates and the government is totally unrealistic with their demands to have 50% of all school leavers at Uni. There are not enough graduate jobs available. The apprenticeship route is the best option at the moment because you gain practical and theoretical skills and can still gain a degree whilst in employment.

I think University should be related to demand from the economy. The education system is a mess and I feel young people getting into University right now have it tougher than past graduates.

The big thing i guess is do you think that more people having university education is beneficial to the nation?
cause if you do then surely it should be free?

and there is demand for students in many industries, just not in popular subjects. (physics, chemistry, maths, engineering... to name a few) its just people all take popular courses (hence supply outweighing demand).

well i think university should be free and always will, because i think people have right to education and should never have to pay for it.

Oldernotwiser

lucien_roach wrote: »

My Argument

1) If more People are educated better, they get better Jobs
2) Better Jobs = More Tax Paid
3) Amount Paid on Taxes > Uni Costs

on 35k a year tax is 40%, 0.4 x 35000 = 14000, in two years that is higher than the average student debt

4) Paying for uni lowers number of applicants

Uni should therefore be free because it is good for the country in the long run like an investment

New I meant tution fees, but i still think the maitenance loan is too low, students shouldn't really have to support themselves with part-time jobs to be honest.

:beer:cheers for lucien's amazingness:beer:

no economists are allowed to rip my argument to shreds or i will hunt them down

I do hope you're not planning on studying economics! You pay no tax on the first £5,225 you earn, 10% on approximately the next £2,000 and 22% on everything between about £7,500 and £34,000. You only pay 40% on earnings over £34,000 (give or take).

Why will you only be earning £850 over the summer? Even on minimum wage you should be earning about £150 per week and you'll have at least 12 weeks when you're available for work.

I agree that HE should be free but then I think that only about 20% of the population should be at university.

lucien_roach

no i have no intention of studying economics and have no idea how tax works i just know its 40% of 32k+, and i don't really care as i don't have to pay it

Oldernotwiser wrote: »

Why will you only be earning £850 over the summer? Even on minimum wage you should be earning about £150 per week and you'll have at least 12 weeks when you're available for work.

hmmm well i said that was if i worked my school for 6 weeks over summer i haven't looked else where yet though.

GoldenEye

lucien_roach wrote: »

The big thing i guess is do you think that more people having university education is beneficial to the nation?
cause if you do then surely it should be free?

and there is demand for students in many industries, just not in popular subjects. (physics, chemistry, maths, engineering... to name a few) its just people all take popular courses (hence supply outweighing demand).

well i think university should be free and always will, because i think people have right to education and should never have to pay for it.

I do not think it is beneficial to the nation. Industry and Commerce are complaining that all graduates have core soft skills, something that a lot of graduates do not have. It is easy to obtain a first class degree in an easy subject nowadays. Hell, my local college awards degrees.

There used to be a demand in my field. I graduated with a Masters degree in aeronautical engineering and I cannot find a job. Tony Blair keeps saying that we need scientists/engineers for the future of this country. I am an scientist and an engineer. So are my friends yet we do not seem to have jobs. I posted on another thread about my sister, a Doctor. Some of her Doctor friends cannot find jobs!!! They are all leaving for Australia.

Education should be free up to A-Level. I may be complaining but I have lived through this. I made up my mind at age 12 and knew what I wanted to do. I completed all my goals up until graduation and that's when the problems began.

lucien_roach

i still think people should be educated to whatever level they want

i don't think its fair to suggest subjects are easier than others (i'm gonna ignore H &SC and Media cause their not subjects) . But surely the degree needs to change not the availibility

tr3mor

lucien_roach wrote: »

My Argument

1) If more People are educated better, they get better Jobs
2) Better Jobs = More Tax Paid
3) Amount Paid on Taxes > Uni Costs

Regardless of the number of graduates there are a limited number of jobs.

More graduates doesn't mean more taxes, it means more over qualified people working in call centres.

lucien_roach wrote:

i don't think its fair to suggest subjects are easier than others (i'm gonna ignore H &SC and Media cause their not subjects) .

I'd imagine many media students know the difference between "their" and "they're". :rolleyes:

GoldenEye

lucien_roach wrote: »

i still think people should be educated to whatever level they want

i don't think its fair to suggest subjects are easier than others (i'm gonna ignore H &SC and Media cause their not subjects) . But surely the degree needs to change not the availibility

I do genuinely feel sorry for young people nowadays. It is fact that some subjects are easier than others. I do feel sorry because the present system encourages well-off kids to go to Uni. That is not right. But something needs to be done to the WHOLE system.

When you watch programmes such as Question Time or Newsnight the same problems are always highlighted... tuition fees. I never hear about the availibility of grad jobs. That is the main problem.

If we lived in an ideal world where there were enough jobs for enough graduates then education should be free. Unfortunately we do not.

Oldernotwiser

lucien_roach wrote: »

i still think people should be educated to whatever level they want

And suppose 50% of the population want to be educated to PhD level? Who would pay for it? We really would all be paying 40% of all our income if that were the case!!