Nosey people and blue badges.

Tina20

Ok so, let me get this straight:

1: it is rude to ask someone if they are disabled/need their badge/need that space etc
2: it is rude to do the above, even if no badge is shown as; they have no right to ask or see it except for officials.
3: it is ok to be rude and swear at people who question your disability, because they are ignorant.
Edit (how could I forget?)
4: the people who question your disability are 'unwashed' ie: dirty, stupid, uneducated.

Am I correct so far?

BUT

5: if you see a van without a badge, you can confront the driver, and it is unacceptable for him to be rude to you.
6: you can report said van because you could not see a badge visible.
7: the chance of a van driver being disabled is small enough so you are allowed to do the above.

Who is 'unwashed' in this situation?


SEE THE CONTRADICTION HERE ANYONE?

The hypocrisy is starting to grate on me.

sizzler1893

fedupconsumer wrote: »

Again your not grasping the point, who are you to question anyone on their disability. It is not my place to do so, it is not my place to judge people on their disability, whom I honestly would not know the first thing about, their life story how they became disabled. Again you questioning people regarding "alleged abuse" of people using blue badges is wrong and unlawful, from defamation of character, misuse of data under the data protection act, harassment of an individual, hate crime and also disturbing of the public peace.

There is also a glaring difference between "alleged" blue badge misuses and a violent physical assault the two are not comparable.

"[FONT=&quot] Now according to some folks on here I should be minding my own business and leaving it to the authorities!! I have no rights querying peoples validity as anybody (theatre ushers included) may have hidden disabilities and after all it is dark and a bit cweepy by the time they leave...[/FONT]"

There is a difference to what you experienced to what the thread of the discussion on this thread is trying to say. If say someone who as eskimo26 pointed out rightly has displayed their blue badge and time disk correctly and you are then asking them about their disability; On the basis you do not think they have one for whatever reason i.e not struggling walking, despite having a blue badge. That is wrong in my view.

To have a car parked without a blue badge on display is a different case entirely.

"OK let me a quick rant. Got harassed tonight for parking in a blue badge bay with my badge on show in an almost empty car park by an older chap as I had nothing wrong with my legs!" True" I responded! "Good job you cant see my lungs". He muttered and got in the car he'd lept out of to block me in. Very sad person. Even if he had a badge there were another 5 spaces."

Thats his issue and ignorance, don't engage these people walk away they don't deserve the time of day.

"I had one woman ask "whats wrong with you then?"

As you correctly point out in your post scrimpingandscraping, its none of their business. You are obliged to explain your disability to a legal court, police or local authority if they question you not to Jane Doe on the streets.

As with Tina20 I was pointing out the hypocrisy that exists on this forum.

My personal view point is that I will continue to question anyone who is not displaying a badge be it on public or private land. I dont care if they've got one and forgotten to display it - they've had the handbook and know the rules. In the case of the person not having a badge in my experience they soon move their cars.

If I believe someone is misusing a badge then again I will take car and badge details and report them. Exactly as I would do a possible false benefit claim. If you're a legitimate user / claimant then why would you worry about being checked????

Ive said many times that imo the biggest abusers of the BB system are BB holders themselves - letting family or friends 'borrow' the badge.

Why is it that a minority of people with disabilities whine on about discrimination and a want to be treated equally and fairly with able bodied members of society then cry foul when that happens???

We cant have it both ways

bigbulldog

sizzler1893 wrote: »

If I believe someone is misusing a badge then again I will take car and badge details and report them. Exactly as I would do a possible false benefit claim. If you're a legitimate user / claimant then why would you worry about being checked????

Being checked by an official I have no problem with that,but to have a nosy busybody with nothing better to do and ask about my disabilities and why should I park in a disabled bay now that's a problem....:mad:

Errata

BB use seems to both polarise opinion and bring out the worst in some. My view is that if someone casts a disparaging look or comment or attempts to question the use of my BB they will be ignored; how they choose to conduct their lives and behave in public is no business of mine.

fedupconsumer

sizzler1893 wrote: »

As with Tina20 I was pointing out the hypocrisy that exists on this forum.

My personal view point is that I will continue to question anyone who is not displaying a badge be it on public or private land. I dont care if they've got one and forgotten to display it - they've had the handbook and know the rules. In the case of the person not having a badge in my experience they soon move their cars.

If I believe someone is misusing a badge then again I will take car and badge details and report them. Exactly as I would do a possible false benefit claim. If you're a legitimate user / claimant then why would you worry about being checked????

Ive said many times that imo the biggest abusers of the BB system are BB holders themselves - letting family or friends 'borrow' the badge.

Why is it that a minority of people with disabilities whine on about discrimination and a want to be treated equally and fairly with able bodied members of society then cry foul when that happens???

We cant have it both ways

And yet again people do not get the point.

Who are you to question someones disability whom you do not know the first thing about?

So you don't care if a person whom has a mental or cognitive problem, forgets to put their badge on the dash, or a carer who is struggling to get someone out of the car in all of the stress forgets to put the blue badge on the dash, is fair game? There is an element of human error in this can the handbook legislate for this?
Blimey, no compassion showed at all, a little understanding would not go a miss.

Again how are you going to store the persons details ? keep them on file locked away, if on your phone are you going to encrypt the data. On your PC with password and encryption? if not you are in breach of data protection act, a criminal offense.

Is it likely to result in libel action against the reporter, should your report lead to no prosecution and the person you have reported has recourse to seek compensation for defamation of character.

Are you trained in identifying people with disabilities or are medically trained? If you are not then use common sense and give people the benefit of the doubt.

Why should people worry about being checked? lets see shall we. Majority of blue badges are genuine and very ill people who could do well without the hassle of being summoned under caution to a local authority or police station.

To be effectively called liars despite being genuinely disabled.

To be harassed by people who don't know the first thing about them or their medical histories.

To wrongfully accuse BB holders of being fraudulent without firm evidence also is a deeply flawed argument.

Are these arguments so hard to understand?

RE tina

"1: it is rude to ask someone if they are disabled/need their badge/need that space etc"

Yes it is deeply rude to ask if someone is disabled, its none of our business. Its a private matter.

2: it is rude to do the above, even if no badge is shown as; they have no right to ask or see it except for officials.

Yes because you do not have a LEGAL right to ask them in the first place. That is the underpinning argument here Tina is you do not have any legal right to ask.

3: it is ok to be rude and swear at people who question your disability, because they are ignorant.

Some people have disabilities that effect their emotional state, who have outbursts of aggression, if pushed people who question their disabilities can in effect trigger "episodes."

4: the people who question your disability are 'unwashed' ie: dirty, stupid, uneducated.

Where did anyone say "unwashed or stupid" ? Some people are uneducated in terms of their views on disability or they have a one dimensional view of disability. No one is saying that people are unintelligent, people are saying that if you have no training in disability awareness, medical training or comparable training, how can you possibly make a correct diagnosis or assertion that the person you are reporting is in fact not disabled or disabled ; When you have not been sufficiently trained to identify them?

5: if you see a van without a badge, you can confront the driver, and it is unacceptable for him to be rude to you.

It is not acceptable for anyone to abuse anyone regardless of the circumstance.

Who is 'unwashed' in this situation?

Those are very strong words and highly offensive.

bigbulldog

sizzler1893 wrote: »

As with Tina20 I was pointing out the hypocrisy that exists on this forum.

That's rich.!!!!!!

sizzler1893 wrote: »

Ive said many times that imo the biggest abusers of the BB system are BB holders themselves - letting family or friends 'borrow' the badge.

Where's your evidence then.????

Tina20

Why do people not read posts properly?

It's not about your entitlement, that is your business!

It's about the fact that you can say others should not question your badge, but YOU can question others and their badge.
That's what the hypocrisy problem is.

I don't question anyone, ever. They want to park there, they can go right ahead. It's none of my business if they are driving a van or a catamaran without a badge, I'm not getting involved for fear of enraging someone.
So you too should realise that it upsets you, so don't do it to others!

And yes, someone said that the kind of people who confront them are the 'great unwashed', not my words.

fedupconsumer

Tina20 wrote: »

Why do people not read posts properly?

YOU can question others and their badge.
That's what the hypocrisy problem is.

I don't question anyone, ever. They want to park there, they can go right ahead. It's none of my business if they are driving a van or a catamaran without a badge, I'm not getting involved for fear of enraging someone.
So you too should realise that it upsets you, so don't do it to others!

And yes, someone said that the kind of people who confront them are the 'great unwashed', not my words.

Ok for the last time Tina, You have no LEGAL right to ask people about their disabilities, only a local authority or police officials are allowed by Law to do so. No one has a legal right to question someone in the way some people have expressed on here. No one has the right to abuse and bully disabled people in this way. I find it troublesome that people think that they have a legal obligation to report and challenge, when they do not. To verbally attack someone whom they think is being fraudulent when they are not.

If they are not "your words" then why use such derogatory and frankly obscene words to people on an open forum? that has no bearing on the debate being made.

Jay_Tee

Tina20 wrote: »

And yes, someone said that the kind of people who confront them are the 'great unwashed', not my words.

I first used the phrase, it comes from an 1830 novel

http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/the-great-unwashed.html

I used it as I felt it was quite apt for those people who feel they have the right to quiz people they don't know about their personal medical history.

The OP gives a good example of the sort of person I'm referring to!

Tina20

fedupconsumer wrote: »

Ok for the last time Tina, You have no LEGAL right to ask people about their disabilities, only a local authority or police officials are allowed by Law to do so. No one has a legal right to question someone in the way some people have expressed on here. No one has the right to abuse and bully disabled people in this way. I find it troublesome that people think that they have a legal obligation to report and challenge, when they do not. To verbally attack someone whom they think is being fraudulent when they are not.

If they are not "your words" then why use such derogatory and frankly obscene words to people on an open forum? that has no bearing on the debate being made.

Ok, for the last time 'fed up consumer'!
Why are you preaching legalities to me? I don't care!! All I care about is people here saying one thing, but doing another.

It is the HYPOCRISY that is grating on me, not people parking where they shouldn't, or anything to do with your personal disability.

I brought up the unwashed comment, because someone pointed out that people who question disabilities are 'the great unwashed' so I was asking whether that applied to the person who similarly assumed that the van driver couldn't be disabled simply because he was in a van and not displaying a badge.

I will say it one more time:

You cannot moan about how people challenge your disability, bleat about how they have no right, complain that they are rude to you, call them ignorant, swear at them, deliberately lead them to believe you are not eligible for the space just to annoy them (ie: take your time displaying badge deliberately to start an argument)

AND THEN GO ON TO SAY THAT YOU HAVE REPORTED SOMEONE YOU PRESUME IS PARKING IN A BB SPACE. that you've seen loads of people who appear perfectly healthy. that someone in a van is unlikely to be disabled. That they have the gall to swear at you when you question them etc etc etc.

It certainly appears that there is one rule for BB users, and another for everyone else.

BB holders apparently can question others, but passersby cannot question BB holders?

Hypocrisy is what is annoying me. I won't say it again!