Driver in overtaking lane at 65mph

almillar

SHIPSHAPE - I've told you what it says in the Highway Code - you flash your headlights to indicate your presence. If you come up behind someone driving on the right when they're meant to be on the left, and they don't move over, it's perfectly valid to flash your lights to, you've guessed it, indicate your presence.
See you've said that drivers should be alert at all times. I agree. Lack of concentration is the biggest cause of crashes in this country I reckon, but the simple fact is, if drivers were 'alert at all times' no-one would have started this thread in the first place! Don't let me stop you beeping your horn, I've no problem with that (before 22.30 anyway isn't it?) but flashing your lights at a driver of any vehicle SHOULD be effective unless they're really not paying attention. If you think it's not effective on a 4x4, you should maybe back off a bit so the beam isn't just bouncing off their bumper!
We've covered other drivers' interpretations of flashes already. We know (well I do) what the Highway Code says it means. It IS lawful to flash them (almost) whenever you like, the speed trap case you mention being improper use.
Again, LOTS of good instructors, and ANY IAM one (yes, that used to be me!) will, but NOT to direct traffic or warn of speed cameras.

C_Mababejive

NBLondon wrote: »

Your first post sounded like you would deliberately match speeds or worse hold in their blind spot. If you are just driving in Lane 1 at a fixed speed, then you are either going to pass them or drop behind them. (Or given that the average MLOC clot can't hold a fixed speed - both of these). You would only parallel them if you joined, came up to your limited speed and found they were doing the same speed. In which case, it would be sensible to ease off for a few seconds let them get a little ahead so you can see when they do something else stupid and then carry on at your chosen speed.

Of course..needless to say i do not run parallel with the CLOC. I stay in lane one and a little way behind in case they wake up and move left. Of course if they are going slow enough, i will undertake them as i dont have much choice.

SHIPSHAPE

skea56 wrote: »

Heading into work this morning when I was caught behind a car doing between 63-65 mph in the overtaking lane.

Ended up I sat behind her for the rest of my journey - there was only one further opportunity where I could have undertook her,

almillar wrote: »

Anyway, on your bestest behaviour, all you can do is give a flash to let her know you're there. Repeat.
You shouldn't undertake. After giving her a couple of flashes, that's what I'd do though. .

That was your advice for a car doing 65mph on a motorway, in the right hand lane...at rush hour!

The OP also stated he had only one opportunity to undertake throughout the journey, which he declined to take.

This clearly indicates a congested, busy commute. LOTS OF TRAFFIC.

Why on earth do you feel the need to flash somebody in front of you, 'to let them know you are there,' when any muppet driving would know they are surrounded by cars, in front, behind and beside??

You don't need to make your presence felt, it is blindingly obvious. 65mph may have been the safest speed.

The ONLY reason you advised to flash is for what I pointed out earlier, you want that car doing 65mph out of the way!

THAT is improper use of flashing your headlights, it is directing traffic to move, which you even admit is wrong, it is aggressive and it is not taught by anyone to anyone.

You wouldn't flash anyone driving at 70mph, unless you wanted to go faster, that's right isn't it? That is aggression.

Do you always flash everyone you get to drive behind, even urban? No, if you did you would again be aggressive.

The only reason you said to the OP to flash to them was to get them out the way. Directing traffic by flash!

You know it, I know it.

And that is wrong, even unlawful.

You can fool some of the people....

SHIPSHAPE

almillar wrote: »

SHIPSHAPE - I've told you what it says in the Highway Code - you flash your headlights to indicate your presence. If you come up behind someone driving on the right when they're meant to be on the left, and they don't move over, it's perfectly valid to flash your lights to, you've guessed it, indicate your presence.
.

Yeah, right!

So you routinely flash your lights at every car in front of you, do you? On motorways, in the city??

No one in their right mind does.

So why do it to someone driving 65mph on a busy motorway?;)

Lum

To be fair, on the flashing lights thing. I usually find that if you hang back a good distance, e.g. the officially recommended two seconds, and give a flash from that distance, people are more likely to interpret it as a request than an aggressive action and might actually move over

If you drive right up their jacksy and flash them, which is the favoured method by some people I get lifts from, you'll get a middle finger and/or a brake test.

Of course there are some that will do that anyway, even if you are 2+ seconds back but there's no need to worry about a brake test if you are at the correct following distance.

Maybe it will become easier to undertake them if they slam on? and maybe gives another valid valid excuse for doing so too. "They slammed on their brakes for seemingly no valid reason and therefore I decided that the safest course of action was to go around them, due to the proximity of the vehicle behind me."

PollyOnAMission

Lum wrote: »

To be fair, on the flashing lights thing. I usually find that if you hang back a good distance, e.g. the officially recommended two seconds, and give a flash from that distance, people are more likely to interpret it as a request than an aggressive action and might actually move over

If you drive right up their jacksy and flash them, which is the favoured method by some people I get lifts from, you'll get a middle finger and/or a brake test.

Of course there are some that will do that anyway, even if you are 2+ seconds back but there's no need to worry about a brake test if you are at the correct following distance.

Maybe it will become easier to undertake them if they slam on? and maybe gives another valid valid excuse for doing so too. "They slammed on their brakes for seemingly no valid reason and therefore I decided that the safest course of action was to go around them, due to the proximity of the vehicle behind me."

As I said in my original post (the one that for some reason caused SHIPSHAPE to label me a liar), the advice I was given by my IAM instructor was to maintain a reasonable distance behind and flash once. If someone went right up close behind, started tailgating and flahsed their lights I would take that as aggressive, yes.

As for SHIPSHAPE'S comments on my IAM instructor: I'm not quite sure what you believe qualifies you to make such comments, but I can assure you he certainly was a good instructor and that he trains police drivers.

He also stressed the point to me, as mentioned by others, that to flash your lights in certain situations (e.g. letting people out of junctions, thanking people) is not right. This is absolutely down to the reason you state: light flashing is open to misinterpretation. On the outside lane of a motorway there is less chance of this misinterpretation. However in a built up area, for example, a flash of your lights to thank someone may be misinterpreted by another driver that you are flashing to let them out of a junction. If people only used light flashes in the way they are supposed to (to warn people of their presence) then there wouldn't be this issue of misinterpretation.

I certianly would not "routinely flash my lights at every car in front of me, on motorways, in the city". In fact I'd probably never do it in a city/built up area if there would be a high chance of other motorists misinterpreting my signal. On a road like a motorway, where a flash is an obvious indication only to the car immediately ahead of you, I would do so in the right circumstances. Those circumstance would be when a car is sitting in the outside lane with space to pull in to their left, who hasn't noticed me and pulled in after I've been behind them for a bit. I would keep a reasonable distance and flash once; I certainly would not tailgate them, flash aggresively or gesticulate etc.

Lum

I do, however, still flash my lights to let people out of junctions.

There's a simple reason for this... nobody believes a left signal these days, so when I'm turning left onto the minor road of a certain annoying T-junction, I'll try to let at least one car out in the process.

A left signal and a flash of my lights often gives them the idea that yes I actually know what I'm doing and am not just another dozy muppet who forgot to cancel their signal coming off the roundabout (the road curves constantly left after the roundabout, so uncancelled signals are common)

If you want to interpret it strictly, the combination of signals means "I am here, and I am turning left", but in practice it means "Yes, all these lights are being activated intentionally, I really am turning left, you can safely pull out in front of me".

Of course, there's still the people who don't respond to a flash, a wave, obvious slowing down or an indicator, but hey.. I tried.

LittleMissAspie

C_Mababejive wrote: »

In the good ol US of A traffic passes left and right with impunity and it all works just fine. Try it out on the LA giratory..six lanes wide and all running smoothly. It is only the paranoid Brits who struggle and so feel the need to reserve the centre lane for themselves just in case they get stuck in lane one or more likely,they are too incompetent to drive properly so hedge their bets in lane 2.

Actually if you read any American forum you'll find lots of people complaining about middle lane hoggers. I believe it's also polite practice in America to stick to the left hand lane* unless you need to overtake. Personally I don't seem to encounter middle lane hoggers very much here in England, a worse problem I see is people cutting in front of others when changing lanes and forcing the car behind to brake, that happens a lot.

*Equivalent of.

almillar

SHIPSHAPE - now hold on - we kind of have to make the assumption that the person holding us up is NOT themselves part of a queue, and that they DO have plenty of space on the inside to pull in! It takes far less space for that car in front to pull in than it does to get into it and drive past the other car, and get back out again, and you really shouldn't do this in traffic! I've assumed that there's not much traffic, and you've assumed (I don't think it 'clearly indicates') there's loads, I don't know who's right about that but my advice does NOT apply in traffic.
Agreed - 'The ONLY reason you advised to flash is for what I pointed out earlier, you want that car doing 65mph out of the way!'
Disagree - 'THAT is improper use of flashing your headlights, it is directing traffic to move, which you even admit is wrong, it is aggressive and it is not taught by anyone to anyone.'
Again, you're not directing traffic. You're making the person in from aware of your presence. If they aren't paying proper attention (and clearly they aren't if they're cruising along alone in the outside lane), then you will alert them that someone is behind, and if they are a half courteous driver, they'll move over. No directing traffic there then.
Don't pull the 70mph trick - you don't know how accurate your speedo is, nor I mine. Police spend a lot of money calibrating theirs, so if you think you're doing 70 in the outside lane, and you get flashed, please move over. This isn't about speed, it's about lane discipline. It applies to a 40mph dual carraigeway, and an Autobahn at 150.
I don't flash at everyone all the time. I DO flash at people who are clearly driving in the wrong lane. The Highway Code clearly states drive on the left, overtake on the right (I'm paraphrasing before you look for that in black and white).
Finally, you say to honk your horn instead of flash. If flashing is directing traffic, how is honking not?
Lum - yes - if I'm coming up behind someone in the outside lane, I'll be approaching them with my car slightly to the right, so that I will be more visible in the driver's mirror - and driving at the proper distance does come across as less agressive too, although some people seem to wonder why you've done it as they're not in your way!
PollyonAMission's post is textbook 'IAM way' seems to tie up with mine. Still no idea where SHIPSHAPE got his advice from. He's twice as wrong now anyway even though he hasn't admitted such.

C_Mababejive

#89 Well i suppose lane discipline is a function of the number of lanes. With a 6 lane wide freeway,its almost inevitable that there will be passing on both sides and really,it shouldnt be a problem and should be preferred IMHO. I certainly had no issues managing traffic flows in my travels all over USA.