Driver in overtaking lane at 65mph

Mrs_Arcanum

So you would rather the motorways and dual carriageways are taken over by blinkered folk who can only see in front of them and are only happy when their bit of road is clear. Oblivious or indifferent to the road rage they cause around them and with a total disregard for the rules of the road.

In the OP's situation I would have just left them to it in the O/S lane and just stayed in the middle or inside according to speed & traffic conditions. Whist taking care to watch out for any emergency vehicles that may need to pass (something the oblivious driver probably doesn't consider).

SHIPSHAPE

1 Errrm, a busy motorway.

It's like being in a crowd of people, like a supermarket on a Saturday afternoon, and shouting, 'Look people, I'm here! Now get out my way whilst I go buy a tin of beans!'

You do not need to do it, it's ridiculous.

If a vehicle on a busy motorway cannot see other vehicles then it is the job of the police to deal with, not you, as a private motorist. If no police, then tough, you put up with it, it doesn't last forever!

2 Several members have essentially admitted that the flashing of lights in this thread's example is more than just making their presence felt, they also expect the driver to move, change lanes.

Don't say that is not the case because one only has to read back.

Now, that is not permitted under rule 110, no matter what you say. In fact, it is forbidden. It is not permitted anywhere, not under any authoratitive legislation whatsoever.

3 Even if you believe it to be appropriate what can the effect be?

They don't move, they stay there.

What use was the flash?

4 What does every vehicle on the opposite carriageway think your flash meant?

Would be very interested to know how you arrive at your answer.

5 'Making your presence known' in the way suggested by some in this thread's scenario is not taught to learner drivers, learner drivers do not use motorways.

Just like learner drivers are not taught to keep their fog lights on for no reason, but motorists do simply because they see fog 20 miles away on the horizon.

Or they put their hazards on whilst being towed, despite being a moving vehicle.

Or waiting in a box junction, causing havoc.

It is bad driving and not taught anywhere.

6 The only instances where it 'may' be appropriate to make your presence known is in situations where I have earlier described, a break down in a dangerous position where the driver is on foot inspecting the vehicle, for eg.

You may want to flash to 'make your presence' known as you are passing. Or, a horn beep may be more effective if the driver cannot see you but you can see them.

Personally, I'd just give a wide bearth on passing, if safe to do so, with no need to do anything.

That is what it is meant for, not flashing on a motorway with the ultimate aim to get a vehicle out of the way.

SHIPSHAPE

Mrs_Arcanum wrote: »

So you would rather the motorways and dual carriageways are taken over by blinkered folk who can only see in front of them and are only happy when their bit of road is clear. Oblivious or indifferent to the road rage they cause around them and with a total disregard for the rules of the road.

But I am not the law, I am culpable only for my driving, nobody else.

I would like to see every bad driver off the road, from the blinkered to the dangerous speeders, but, unfortunately, we just have to put up with them until, if ever, they are brought to task.

In the OP's situation I would have just left them to it in the O/S lane and just stayed in the middle or inside according to speed & traffic conditions. Whist taking care to watch out for any emergency vehicles that may need to pass (something the oblivious driver probably doesn't consider).

In that case you would have been correct. However annoying it is it is the right thing to do.

I cannot prompt a driver doing 100mph on a motorway to slow down any more than I can prompt a driver to speed up, I have no authority to do so.

A van in the outside lane could be doing 60mph on a speed restrictor, but he is overtaking a car doing 55mph in the middle lane.

If one is behind the van, wanting to do 70mph, then tough, one just has to wait.

Flashing of headlights would mean nothing, it would do nothing, other than maybe endanger other drivers on the opposite carriageway.

Sometimes one has to slow down, that is just the nature of driving on a road/motorway network.

...........

Mrs_Arcanum

If someone flashed their lights in my vicinity on a motorway I would only take notice if they were behind me gaining quickly. Those on the opposite carriageway who flash may be trying to indicate too many different things for me to act upon so I ignore them, as I would suspect they are flashing the car in front of them & have nothing to do with me.

If shortly transpires there is an accident up ahead I will find out soon enough, but flashes should not be used to indicate more than "I am here, see me" and if needed used wherever required.

SHIPSHAPE

Sgt_Pepper wrote: »

so all of this is just your opinion.

What are your driving qualifications?

Rule 110 of HC is not my opinion.

My qualifications for driving are irrelevant, all private motorists should know what I know.

As previously mentioned, some motorists have no idea when, and when not, to appropriately use fog lights or the appropriate use of hazard lights.

Just as some have no idea how, and how not, to use their headlights appropriately.

Same !!!!!!, different shovel.

Bongles

For the avoidance of doubt, I'd like to point out again that my comments have not been in the context of a busy motorway, they've been in the context of motorway (or rather, multi-lane road) driving in general - and specifically, the scenario where you are held up by someone who has an opportunity to move left and let you past. As I said before, the busier the traffic, the less likely that scenario is to arise. But arise it can.

SHIPSHAPE wrote: »

It's like being in a crowd of people, like a supermarket on a Saturday afternoon, and shouting, 'Look people, I'm here! Now get out my way whilst I go buy a tin of beans!'

I like the supermarket analogy. As I made clear in my first post, this is most certainly not saying, "get out my way".

Sometimes a supermarket aisle is congested - some people going one way, some people going the other, some people stopped to look at the shelves. When this happens we work it all through - waiting our turn, moving through when we can, not obstructing other people when we can avoid it. It would of course be the height of rudeness to try and barge through - physically or verbally - other people who have just as much right to be there and like you are just trying to get on with their shopping.

Sometimes, as the congestion in the aisle eases, it becomes apparent that someone, perhaps engrossed in what they are doing, is causing an unnecessary obstruction. On other occasions, one can turn the corner into a new aisle and find it deserted but for one person who is completely blocking it.

In situations like this, I don't initially know whether the person causing the unnecessary obstruction is rude and selfish and doesn't care about the problem they've caused, or whether they're just engrossed in what they're doing and haven't realised the problem they've caused. On the principle of never attributing to malice that which can be explained by a simple mistake, I assume until proven otherwise that it is the latter, and I say "excuse me" to draw attention to my presence in the hope that they will realise the problem.

Invariably it seems, they look up, they do realise the problem, and they choose to do something about it by moving out of the way. It turns out that they are not rude and selfish at all. I thank them for their cooperation and we both continue our shopping quite happily.

hareng

Bongles wrote: »

I don't initially know whether the person causing the unnecessary obstruction is rude and selfish and doesn't care about the problem they've caused, or whether they're just engrossed in what they're doing and haven't realised the problem they've caused.

I suggest these people are rude and selfish or totally thick, unfortunately i am not that tactful in asking them to move.
Same applies to lane hoggers, i would never flash my lights they should already be aware of their surroundings but doubt it.

almillar

SHIPSHAPE - your questions, answered (mostly done already):


1 What do you think vehicles on the opposite carriageway think your flash meant when you do it to someone in front of you?

Well, as we've established all along, it simply means 'I am here' - and they can use that information accordingly ie, do nothing. The driver in front however should think, 'ah there's a car behind me. I appear to be in the outside lane. Oops, I'll just move back in'. That's not directing traffic BTW. If it is, so is your example of a crash. You're DIRECTING traffic not to crash into the crash. Tut tut. I do, of course, and have done already, accept that people misinterpret flashing. That doesn't mean I can't do it though. Also, you seem to advocate using the horn instead. I ask you - What will that person in the opposite carriageway think your horn meant?

2 What do you think cops think when you are doing the above, but this time in a speed trap area?

If the traffic cop sees me flashing, he'll see the car in front of me, with no car infront or beside him, and if he knows his job, he'll know that I was telling the car in front of me that I am there. I'll be happy to explain that to him, but I think he'll go after the car in front of me instead.

3 If what you are doing is so valid then you, or any other driver, can just cite it as a defence if accused of flashing to warn.

MAYBE, just MAYBE, if I do pass a speed check, I would consider not flashing in case it was perceived as such. You introduced this factor though.

You keep saying busy, and keep assuming there's a QUEUE of cars in front. I NEVER advocated flashing at someone who is in a queue. What's the point in that. I ASSUMED that this outside laner IS on his own, with SOME traffic on the inside lane, and ONE large gap, where he could have pulled over. THIS is where, in that specific (or not so specific!) example, I would have flashed. Clear?

hareng

Its quite common to see artics give an elongated flash to tell the artic passing in 'fast lane' they are in front and ok to move to the 'correct' lane.
I wouldnt flash a lane hogger, i would deem that as intimidation however annoying they are.

Did have cause in my opinion this morning to long flash and horn jobby on a typical 4wd user. Im alright Jack pulling out of a junction causing everyone to hit the breaks.