Driver in overtaking lane at 65mph

Tobster86

Lum wrote: »

I do, however, still flash my lights to let people out of junctions.

Of course, there's still the people who don't respond to a flash, a wave, obvious slowing down or an indicator, but hey.. I tried.

Just be very careful in this situation as people behind you could (shouldn't but could) overtake and potentially collide with the person coming out of the junction.

I don't flash people out without checking no one is in my rear view mirror first, and won't accept a flash out unless I'm sure it's clear behind the person flashing and turning left.

Lum

At the junction I have in mind, it would require driving over an island and flattening a bollard to do that, probably also require driving through a queue of cars waiting to turn right into the minor road.

However, I get your point.

Nearly_Old

shaun_from_Africa wrote: »

As there is nothing in the highway code that refers to motorway lanes by numbers (they always use right hand, left hand etc), and this is backed up by UK legislation, (the Motorways traffic regulations state exactly the same,) I don't see anything wrong with the general public using the same designations when referring to motorways.

As in post #79 I agree that using the lane numbers would not be of benefit to the public. As you have said the Highway Code and Motorway Traffic Regulations (MTR) only ever refer either to left hand or nearside or to the right hand or offside lanes. This is because neither of these documents actually needs to refer to any other lane(s) that may (or may not) be present between the two outer lanes. However the MTR had to be amended to cover managed motorways with a dynamic hardshoulder as the hardshoulder can become the left hand or nearside lane.

The Highways Agency issued IAN 111-09 (post #78) and that is a mandatory numbering system for all organisations involved in the management and maintenance of motorways. The difference is that these organisations have to be able to clearly distinguish between individual lanes; e.g. when recording defects, issuing Works Orders, reporting incidents to the emergency services, organising lane closures, etc.

Left and right for a 2 lane carriageway, left, middle and right for a 3 lane carriageway are both fine and everybody does generally understand these. But how are people describing 4 lane or 5 lane carriageways when there are 2 or 3 "middle" lanes? Fortunately I didn't have that many witness statements to look at on anything but 2 or 3 lane carriageways and generally the police added lane numbers.

SHIPSHAPE

One only has to read the various posts in this thread to see what chaos can potentially be created by flashing of lights.

Almillar can say what he likes regarding light flash, and he often quotes the HC, but what he fails to mention is the HC gives not one example of an appropriate situation where flashing is advised.

No official authoritive source ever mentions flashing somebody on a motorway, Almillar simply says it is appropriate, so we have to believe him rather than official sources.

Again, and I have worked for 20 years in various transport related industries, not once has this ever been taught to anyone at any time.

Making yourself aware of your presence is meant for situations where, for eg, an accident has happened on a dangerous bend, or a vehicle has a puncture and the repair has to happen on a road as there is no other option etc

It is not meant for simply coming up behind somebody doing 65mph on a motorway where flashing is nothing other than intimidation, bullying and being aggressive.

However annoying it may be, one should simply keep a safe distance until that vehicle moves, not prompt it in any way.

The police police the roads.

indigo739X

1. I think this is a reasonable solution if done non aggressively from a proper stopping distance behind her. Flashing head-lights is exactly what the police do if they want you to get out of their way.

2. This is what I would do if step 1 failed. Hopefully she would be aware of my vehicle at this stage and I would very carefully slip past on the inside.

3) The obstructing driver is NOT paying attention or is being deliberately obstructive - you don't want to be around this person!, It is plain poor driving to obstruct a following vehicle and not move over at the first reasonable opportunity - even if YOU are doing the maximum speed limit. So don't bother with this option - do 1 & 2.

PS: Undertaking can be dangerous unless you know the lay of the land. I remember considering undertaking someone in the outside lane, who then just got slower and slower - AND THEN TURNED LEFT! across the inner lane. I guess she thought the left turn too sharp and got in the right lane well ahead of her left turn!

SHIPSHAPE

almillar wrote: »

SHIPSHAPE - now hold on - we kind of have to make the assumption that the person holding us up is NOT themselves part of a queue, and that they DO have plenty of space on the inside to pull in! It takes far less space for that car in front to pull in than it does to get into it and drive past the other car, and get back out again, and you really shouldn't do this in traffic! I've assumed that there's not much traffic, and you've assumed (I don't think it 'clearly indicates') there's loads,

The difference between you and I is that I actually read carefully what has been written.

The OP clearly stated he was on a motorway, in the morning and on his way to work.

He then adds that he only had one opportunity in this whole drive to pull out to the next left lane.

Now I am unaware of any motorway system that is not busy in the morning, at rush hour, on a working day where it is almost impossible to change a lane unless it was...busy!

So actually, maybe 65mph was in fact a decent speed to be driving in those conditions.

Even if not, the OP found it difficult to change lanes, why not the driver doing 65 found it difficult too?

The only reason some idiot would be flashing their lights is because they want to get a move on, disregarding everything else around them.

And that is what you said the OP should have done.

Wrong!

newfoundglory

I remember after I passed my driving test and my instructor did a motorway lesson... he suggested you wouldn't need to have a good look over your left shoulder/mirror before changing lanes.

Surely, any safe driver would do so anyway - as assuming people will not undertake you is at best optimistic and at worst dangerous driving without care and attention. Therefore, this "rule" really does very little to improve road safety in the UK.

As someone has pointed out, there are no such rules in most US states - where traffic commonly overtakes on both sides; and this seems to work. Any regular holidaymakers to Florida will know this well!

George_Michael

SHIPSHAPE wrote: »

Almillar can say what he likes regarding light flash, and he often quotes the HC, but what he fails to mention is the HC gives not one example of an appropriate situation where flashing is advised.

No official authoritive source ever mentions flashing somebody on a motorway, Almillar simply says it is appropriate, so we have to believe him rather than official sources.

The highway doesn't give one example of when an emergency stop should be performed, so are we to assume that doing an emergency stop when required is wrong?

Making yourself aware of your presence is meant for situations where, for eg, an accident has happened on a dangerous bend, or a vehicle has a puncture and the repair has to happen on a road as there is no other option etc

What section of the highway code states this then, or is simply your opinion?

SHIPSHAPE

George_Michael wrote: »

The highway doesn't give one example of when an emergency stop should be performed, so are we to assume that doing an emergency stop when required is wrong?


What section of the highway code states this then, or is simply your opinion?

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/travelandtransport/highwaycode/dg_069863

Happy to oblige!

Making yourself aware involves placing out a warning triangle, using hazard lights, side lights if needed etc.

That's not my opinion, it is good practice.

And using an emergency stop is just what it is, you use it in an emergency, you judge that emergency, that should be part of your driving skill. You don't suddenly see a car pull out in front of you and think 'oh dear, what does the HC give an example of what to do?!!'

It needs no example, you use it or crash.

That's very different to flashing headlights at someone on a busy motorway!

The flashing of headlights to make others aware of your presence, with regard to this particular thread ie on a motorway!!, is not advised or suggested anywhere!

George Michael, you should stick to hanging around toilets!:rotfl:

PollyOnAMission

SHIPSHAPE wrote: »

The flashing of headlights to make others aware of your presence is not advised or suggested anywhere!

Direct quote from Highway Code:

110
Flashing headlights. Only flash your headlights to let other road users know that you are there. Do not flash your headlights to convey any other message or intimidate other road users.