No iMac refresh at WWDC

almillar

23n1th - you don't see my point as they're both in the 'desktop' arena?
The mind boggles. Do you understand that if you want, for example, a MacMini, or a 'nettop' (tiny PC), that you pay a premium for it, over that big unwieldy tower? Following on from that, whether you recognise it or not, ALL computer manufacturers charge a premium for having all the components neatly tucked away behind the monitor. Now, I don't want to pay for that, and I'll tuck my nice upgradeable, cheaper tower away thanks, because I don't want to pay extra, and so should you, but this debate is about the iMac, and as such, NOT about tower computers. Note, this isn't even about Apple any more, this is about different form factors having different prices.

Apple's prices for RAM, hard drives - yes, they're ridiculous. Completely. I won't defend it. Buy the computer, and buy the RAM or hard drive elsewhere. Specific to the iMac, the RAM is very easy to replace, the hard drive is very difficult (or at least scary!)

I don't know what Polonez is, but let's suppose you're trying to do your A-B journey on a hot summer's day, and the Audi has air con and the Polonez doesn't. Do you understand that the Audi is better as it got you there in more comfort?

Anubis - what Mac (and OS) do you have that cold boots in 10 seconds?! Mine doesn't!

23n1th

mrochester wrote: »

Isn't that just a custom PC maker and not a manufacturer?

Doesn't offering to customise you mac just make apple a custom mac builder?

wba31 wrote: »

Are you an Apple hater? if so why click and comment on a post about the lack of an upgrade to one Apple item. It's not someone wanting advice on what machine to buy, just a post to other Apple geeks on opinion about what may happen. But you come on to create an argument, and in my opinion offer nothing to the post. Great, you think Apple are overpriced, who cares? I don't, as I feel over time I have had my money's worth with what I have chose to spend MY money on... however if ever I have to buy a PC I will ask your opinion... don't hold you breath...

To answer you question: No - Kinda of makes the rest of you rant rather pointless and a little pathetic, doesn't it.

Anubis wrote: »

Except for RAM once, which cost me £15 for 4GB I don't need to upgrade an Apple - ever.

My opinion is based on building and fixing computers in the past. It's not really the computer that's the main issue, it is the overbloated slug OS called Windows.

So you don't like windows then. That’s a different topic, we're talking hardware.

I can cold boot my Apple and within 10 seconds have this forum up in a browser window. The same cannot be said of a windows based system....loading unnecessary asthetics, loading drivers, loading graphics drivers, loading oven with food to eat while waiting....loading rest of crap....crunch, grind...searching for IP...connecting....3 or 5 minutes later you might be in luck

Loading apple fanboy BS!

Installing something...click next, next, pick this, click next..next...next...5 minutes later or even longer...congratulations, you have installed xxxxxx please reboot.

Apple... Put disk in, drag and drop program into programs folder, 10 seconds later all done!

Again a different topic, why change the topic from hardware to software? Personally I like to know what I'm installing and where, with the choice those options give me. Its personal opinion.

I do admit apple have the dumbest users in mind when writing their software.

almillar wrote: »

23n1th - you don't see my point as they're both in the 'desktop' arena?
The mind boggles. Do you understand that if you want, for example, a MacMini, or a 'nettop' (tiny PC), that you pay a premium for it, over that big unwieldy tower?

What premium am I paying for in a nettop PC? I can get one for under £200. There’s not premium there.

Following on from that, whether you recognise it or not, ALL computer manufacturers charge a premium for having all the components neatly tucked away behind the monitor. Now, I don't want to pay for that, and I'll tuck my nice upgradeable, cheaper tower away thanks, because I don't want to pay extra, and so should you, but this debate is about the iMac, and as such, NOT about tower computers. Note, this isn't even about Apple any more, this is about different form factors having different prices.

They go about doing the same job in different form factors. The point still stands that you can compare the two based on that.

Apple's prices for RAM, hard drives - yes, they're ridiculous. Completely. I won't defend it. Buy the computer, and buy the RAM or hard drive elsewhere. Specific to the iMac, the RAM is very easy to replace, the hard drive is very difficult (or at least scary!)

You wont because you can't. But at least you have the courtesy of answering a simple question others have ignored as they might have had to criticise their fanatical views.

I don't know what Polonez is, but let's suppose you're trying to do your A-B journey on a hot summer's day, and the Audi has air con and the Polonez doesn't. Do you understand that the Audi is better as it got you there in more comfort?

I think I'd just open the window personally. I'm confused, the Audi is the PC right?

Anubis - what Mac (and OS) do you have that cold boots in 10 seconds?! Mine doesn't!

I have a Linux distro that can do that from a SSD. Anubis is just making things up in an effort to make out macs are far better that they actually are, a common thing among the fanatical.

almillar

23n1th - nettops - that's a netbook without the screen, battery, keyboard or trackpad. For your quoted £200. And it's nowhere near as powerful or expandable as a £200 tower would be. Same price. But also paying a premium. The equivalent tower, for example, would cost £100.
Alright, you CAN compare the two, but at some point you'll think about the shape, power, cost and upgradeability of your computer, and have to decide to buy a tower OR an All in One. I stand by my original point that you should not compare a £300 tower with a £900 AIO, both havin a 21 inch screen, keyboard and mouse, and same processor, RAM and hard drive. Do you see that these are different devices, £600 apart?
The Audi is the PC? I though we weren't doing Mac vs PC?! I'm trying to explain to you that the All in One form factor is a more expensive one than the tower. Just so happens that the oldest and most famous all in one is the iMac. I don't know how serious you're being in your argument about the Audi - but if you really can't see that the car with the aircon costs more money to build, and therefore costs more to buy, then you're simply not going to understand the argument.
Drive home in your Lada, switch on your Pentium 3 tower (I'm sure it still 'does the job') and make a cup of Tesco Value tea. Have a seat on your stool (does the same job as a sofa, right?) and watch the football on a 14" TV. What's the point in a bigger one - just sit closer!!

23n1th

almillar wrote: »

23n1th - nettops - that's a netbook without the screen, battery, keyboard or trackpad. For your quoted £200. And it's nowhere near as powerful or expandable as a £200 tower would be. Same price. But also paying a premium. The equivalent tower, for example, would cost £100.

Where?

Alright, you CAN compare the two, but at some point you'll think about the shape, power, cost and upgradeability of your computer, and have to decide to buy a tower OR an All in One.

Thats what I've been saying, glad we can agree.

I stand by my original point that you should not compare a £300 tower with a £900 AIO, both havin a 21 inch screen, keyboard and mouse, and same processor, RAM and hard drive. Do you see that these are different devices, £600 apart?

I never said they were the same device, I said they were doing the same job. When you have a job to do you decide on the right tool. And the right tool depends on your situation. Therefore you can compare the two.

The Audi is the PC? I though we weren't doing Mac vs PC?! I'm trying to explain to you that the All in One form factor is a more expensive one than the tower. Just so happens that the oldest and most famous all in one is the iMac. I don't know how serious you're being in your argument about the Audi - but if you really can't see that the car with the aircon costs more money to build, and therefore costs more to buy, then you're simply not going to understand the argument.

The original poster of the audi analogy had the PC vs Mac thing very much in mind. I would have thought, if the analogy is about air con, the desktop is still the audi, do AIO's come with fan cooling?

Drive home in your Lada, switch on your Pentium 3 tower (I'm sure it still 'does the job') and make a cup of Tesco Value tea. Have a seat on your stool (does the same job as a sofa, right?) and watch the football on a 14" TV. What's the point in a bigger one - just sit closer!!

Actually I'll cycle home on my single speed road bike, turn on my AMD tower that thanks to linux really does do the job, drink my aldi green tea (because I like it too) take a seat on my beanbag (more comfortable than my stool) and read a book if thats ok.

almillar

Where? Probably a refurb on eBay.
Yes, you CAN compare the 2, but my point is that it's UNFAIR to compare purely the internal SPECS of them as if they're the same - that's the usual rubbish people come up with when they say the iMac is expensive.
Air con is simply a feature I plucked out that some people may want to pay for and some may not. Just because one person thinks it's absolutely necessary, doesn't mean another has to have it. Just because one person thinks it's worthless, doesn't mean no-one should be able to buy it. Nothing to do with computer cooling, but yes, AIOs do have fan cooling, which probably costs more than that for towers, and sure takes more designing too but let's not go back there!

23n1th

Ok let me get this straight. Comparing a brand new nettop from a retailer to an ebay refurb tower is OK, but woe betide anyone who would dare to compare an AIO to a tower???

Its not unfair to compare them on specs. If you are looking for a cheap powerful computer of course you'll compare them on specs. Its like saying its unfair to compare them on "space saving" because the tower would loose out.

You've some serious double standards going on here.

almillar

Fair enough. I couldn't find towers cheap enough on PC World or ebuyer, but that refurb off eBay would have the same SPECS as the nettop. I accept that new vs refurb isn't fair though.
That's whole point though - for the same specs, an AIO WILL cost more. For the same price, the tower WILL be higher spec. And the AIO will ALWAYS take up less space and be more portable.
My point, I guess, going backwards is that people shouldn't jump in and say iMacs are expensive, PCs are cheap. AIOs as a form factor are more expensive, spec for spec, pound for pound, than towers. You CAN broadly categorise Tower, nettop, AIO as desktops, but only in the same way you can categorise netbooks, notebooks and ultrabooks as laptops. They all have different sacrifices and different features that you have to pay for.

23n1th

almillar wrote: »

Fair enough. I couldn't find towers cheap enough on PC World or ebuyer, but that refurb off eBay would have the same SPECS as the nettop. I accept that new vs refurb isn't fair though.
That's whole point though - for the same specs, an AIO WILL cost more. For the same price, the tower WILL be higher spec. And the AIO will ALWAYS take up less space and be more portable.
My point, I guess, going backwards is that people shouldn't jump in and say iMacs are expensive, PCs are cheap. AIOs as a form factor are more expensive, spec for spec, pound for pound, than towers. You CAN broadly categorise Tower, nettop, AIO as desktops, but only in the same way you can categorise netbooks, notebooks and ultrabooks as laptops. They all have different sacrifices and different features that you have to pay for.

I would hope so too, seeing as a nettop is the desktop equivalent of the netbook, ie, cheap. The fact that the refurb would be more powerful is kinda the point, nettops/netbooks are cheap because they're underpowered.

You wont convince me that iMacs aren't expensive. You can get the equivalent "PC" AIO for between £300-£400 cheaper.

Apple overcharge for their hardware, always have, always will.

almillar

Yep. Without researching, I'll give you that £300-£400 price difference. I won't give you the ~£600 difference people quote comparing PC towers against the iMac.