Allowance for clothes

claire16c

I dont see what the problem is having an 8 year old that is interested in clothes. When I was about that age I used to have these fashion plate things, where you swapped outfits on these plastic things and then you scrubbed over them with crayons to draw a picture. I spent hours playing with them. The main reason I loved Barbies was to play with the clothing and shoes! It wasnt about following fashion. If anything the clothes I ended up in - mainly my mums pickings were not that fashionable compared to some of my friends, until I was allowed to buy stuff myself at about 12/13.

But it was clearly something that I liked as up until a year ago I worked as a fashion buyer!

I also used to baby sit a little girl who loved clothes, and she sometimes was allowed to come shopping with me for the day and shed take her birthday money and sometimes some extra from her parents, and we'd go round the shops and she'd pick out clothes. She loved doing it and she had a great eye for colours, styling etc, and was only 9. And she came from a very well off family, but she loved going to Primark because she could get more outfits for her money and she was excellent at deciding what to wear in terms of what she already had at home, and what it would go with, how many times would she wear it etc. She was always asking me what I did at work, and even asked me how the stuff was organised in my office, what did we do on the computers, shades of colours and patterns she liked. She says she wants to be a designer or buyer when shes older.

She then apparently did a book with some fashion drawings she done, with samples of bits of fabrics etc, as a talk about an interest she had, to get into a very prestigious private school.

Just because a girl is interested in fashion doesnt mean shes going to turn into an anorexic label obsessed model or something!

poet123

Cat501 wrote: »

She has never thought, and I have never attempted to give her the impression, that these things are not taken account of.
I am not naive, however I will not sit back and accept discrimination and prejudice and I wouldn't actively encourage any kid of mine to conform in order to please prejudiced people.

I'm interested in the part of my post you chose to highlight. You find it depressing that I would like a kind, humane, thoughtful, tolerant person to be a role model to my kids and wouldn't care if they dressed like Coco the Clown or David blinkin' Cameron if I admired them as a person?

How bizarre.

I find it depressing that as a parent you wouldn't want your child to fit in, and thus confirm to what is currently accepted by society, rather than an idealised utopian view that will probably never be the reality. Or at least not whilst your child is of an age to be at the forefront of the fight.

It is all very well saying x shouldn't be the case, if it is, you can rail against it and get caught in the crossfire or you can get on with your life whilst trying to effect change. However, in this case it is not discriminatory or prejudiced, but simple fact that the mutilation of oneself by piercing or tattooing is not acceptable to many because it is a personal view of what is beautiful or what is gross.

Those who have them fall int the former camp, those who don't fall into the latter camp, you will not change that for many a year, so if you are happy for the future of your child to be "sacrificed" for the "greater good" then so be it.

As parents we can only advise, if you advise them to kick against the system, that is your prerogative, they, not you, will take the economic consequences. On that note can you imagine a PM with piercings? Not in my lifetime or yours, or probably that of our kids, so is it wise to say nothing, make them think that it will be ok when experience and stats say differently? That is the call of every parent, you made yours, and you are happy with it, so that is fine.

Cat501

milliebear00001 wrote: »

Absolutely, and I bring my kids up to understand prejudice and discrimination in all forms as wrong, and to be challenged wherever possible. They've been on marches and everything!

BUT (and it's a big but) I would never compromise my kids' life chances because of a principle of mine. They can make that choice for themselves, when they are fully adult and informed enough about the way the world works.

That's great But at 15 her principles were her own, to be honest it wasn't something I really gave a great deal of thought to until I was called up to the school when she was around 14 because of all the badges covering her tie:D We did eventually negotiate a compromise with the staff (I'm a little ashamed to say I was the one who was finally willing to back down a little, she wasn't!). 6 badges allowed, plus her ever changing fringe colour. I'm pretty sure her articulation of her position helped because the school started from quite a strict position. By the time she was getting on for 16, they'd pretty much left her to get on with it! Perhaps accepted that they weren't going to change her and really, given her results, effort and overall behaviour - didn't need to!

Anything she has done since she was 15 (piercings) and 16 (tattoos) have been her decision. I don't think she will back down on her principles when she is older, but if she did decide to, or even changed her views or personal style, she's in a position where everything she has can be easily covered or removed.

How long that will be the case for, I don't know, but she's nearly 18 anyway so it's a moot point even on this thread

Lunar_Eclipse

I've only read the first page of comments, but I actually agree with the allowance, as you have described it. It goes without saying to exercise caution in developing a shopaholic, but common sense tells me that is not an automatic outcome.

There is nothing in your posts that have made me make assumptions about her dressing beyond her age, being demanding about expensive brand items, or becoming overly vain etc. She just takes care of her appearance. Quite refreshing in some ways!

One of my children loves bags. She isn't obsessed with bags, just likes them. It goes right back to toddler days with dolls & prams. I don't even use a hand bag most of the time, yet I have no qualms with her taking one out with us containing a purse, a bottle of water, a book etc. Over the years these have changed from cute & sparkly numbers to bags more in line with her age (12). Charity shop finds and Wills/Kidston all adored equally.

The other, coming up for 11, is similar to your daughter in that she's really into clothes, ie she has an opinion on what she likes to wear and feels comfortable in. I think it's normal and healthy; I have no desire to control how she looks, beyond a basic expectation that she is clean, presentable & age appropriate. The clothes she wears have nothing to do with peer pressure, teenage worshipping or brand labels. She won't wear a skirt/dress unless it's expected (wedding, special occasion) when she'll happily choose to do so, dislikes anything pink intensely and prefers skater/surfy baggy clothes.

I think most Y3/4 girls have some degree of interest in clothes, regardless of TV viewing, magazines or how frequently they go shopping. It's part of mainstream girly conversation.

Cat501

poet123 wrote: »

,

, but simple fact that the mutilation of oneself by piercing or tattooing is not acceptable to many because it is a personal view of what is beautiful or what is gross.

Those who have them fall int the former camp, those who don't fall into the latter camp,

.

Sorry but that's utter nonsense, not everyone who doesn't have piercings or tattoos view them as "gross" or "mutilation". In fact I'd hazard a guess that it's a fairly small minority who hold such an extreme view.

poet123

Cat501 wrote: »

Sorry but that's utter nonsense, not everyone who doesn't have piercings or tattoos view them as "gross" or "mutilation". In fact I'd hazard a guess that it's a fairly small minority who hold such an extreme view.

I disagree. I have spoken at length about these issues as a part of my job and the view is more widespread than you might think. Of course politeness demands we make agreeable sounds when asked in the presence of those who have tattoos or piercings, or their parents;) but in private the views are somewhat different.

We did a survey of local employers (affluent leafy suburb) and one of the questions asked was would you tell a candidate their tattoos or piercings had cost them the job? Their replies were illuminating, 88% said they wouldn't give that as the reason even if it was, only 12% said they would be honest. That same, reasonably representative survey also revealed that 79% said such issues would affect the chances of employment.

If you and your daughter are happy with those stats then she, and you, have made the right decision, so no worries.

Bubby

I haven't read the entire thread but in answer to the op I think a clothing allowance and the choice to choose what she wears is a great idea. I don't agree with allowing children to grow up too early but neither do I agree with making them have no interest in their appearance for fear of them becoming shallow or image obsessed. Some children are naturally drawn to making the most of their appearance and some aren't there isn't a wrong or a right way to be. If you were buying her padded bras or such like at 8 then I would be concerned but fashion is a harmless interest!

Lunar_Eclipse

Cat501 wrote: »

some people actually don't care if they'd be accepted in the law profession or not because they have zero interest in doing it!

Most teenagers don't care about anything that often becomes incredibly important a few years down the line. I also don't think most can truly comprehend the value of leaving as many doors open as possible. (I can remember my younger sister turning down her Oxford interview just because it was Oxford university and she wanted to stick two fingers up at her school, and thinking !!!!!!!)

I think it's great that you are so supportive of your daughter's choices, although in an unrelated way, I can't help but wonder why she isn't more ambitious. I'm also curious as to whether you would describe her as having a rebellious nature?

Cat501

Lunar_Eclipse wrote: »

Most teenagers don't care about anything that often becomes incredibly important a few years down the line. I also don't think most can truly comprehend the value of leaving as many doors open as possible. (I can remember my younger sister turning down her Oxford interview just because it was Oxford university and she wanted to stick two fingers up at her school, and thinking !!!!!!!)

I think it's great that you are so supportive of your daughter's choices, although in an unrelated way, I can't help but wonder why she isn't more ambitious. I'm also curious as to whether you would describe her as having a rebellious nature?

I don't know really,I guess not everyone has an ambitious nature.... I was really disappointed myself when she insisted on leaving school after her Intermediate 2 exams, can't deny it, but I came to accept it (accept that I couldn't live vicariously through her and expect her to do things I had planned to do at that age and ended up not doing for various reasons, eg Uni) and she's much happier with the more liberal atmosphere at college.

Hmm - rebellious - no I wouldn't really say she was, perhaps because she's not had a great deal to rebel against lol! I guess the best way I can put it is that she won't do - or not do - something just for the sake of "rebelling".

Lunar_Eclipse

Cat501 wrote: »

it's incredibly depressing that the "majority" of parents would be so blinkered and shallow that looks and style of dress would even come into their specifications for a "role model".:(

Depressing as it may be, it's the reality. It's why slim beats overweight, men often beat women unless we're into positive discrimination, beauty beats ugly etc, in many interviews. It also means non-tattooed and non-pierced beats the opposite, in the vast majority of professional jobs and certainly in highly paid mainstream employee roles.