Allowance for clothes

terra_ferma

poet123 wrote: »

I am sorry if that sounds harsh, but that is the reality, and why I know that such things are career limiting.

they are career limiting only because of small minded people who don't give them jobs for no other reason than having piercings/tattoos

Bluemeanie_2

I've only read the first page of the responses so may have missed something, but I'm a little surprised from the answers on it about an 8 year old not being allowed a choice in their own clothes. My SD is 8 in July and SS is 9. When we took them shopping for their holiday clothes we let them choose their clothes in a sense. For example we told them they needed 3 pairs of shorts, so many tshirts etc they chose their own as they have preferences for colours, pictures on the tshirts etc

poet123

terra_ferma wrote: »

they are career limiting only because of small minded people who don't give them jobs for no other reason than having piercings/tattoos

You are entitled to your opinion of course, but I disagree.

They are unsightly, and very permanent, and given a choice between two candidates equally qualified for a customer facing role, such as teaching, law, police, child care, then most of the time the candidate who is tattoo and piercing free will get the job.

In my opinion, and in the opinion of many, not all of us small minded,;) they do not present the best face or impression of any company, no matter how nice a person they are.

milliebear00001

terra_ferma wrote: »

they are career limiting only because of small minded people who don't give them jobs for no other reason than having piercings/tattoos

That is entirely true - but that doesn't change the fact that if you want to maintain as many open doors as possible for your kids, you have to make sure you do your utmost to make sure they don't make choices while young and 'unworldly' that close doors to them and may very well come back to bite them later in life!

I can very safely say, for example, that there is no way on earth a teacher wearing facial piercings or visible tattoos would be given a job at the school I teach in. Harsh? Unfair? You betcha, but that, like it or not, is life.

I am a completely different person, with completely different values and wants and priorities, today, when compared with the person I was at 16. I cringe at some of the choices I made then, and some, like the subjects I chose to pursue at school, I really wish my parents had had more awareness about and input into. They'd have made things a lot easier for me later on in life when I changed tack and had a complete career change (for example).

Cat501

poet123 wrote: »

Not on the sole basis, no.

However, all else being equal, and trust me, there are very many excellent young graduate teachers out there, then they would not be first choice. I consider teachers need also be role models, and I also have to consider what the majority of parents would consider to be the characteristics of such a role model for impressionable kids. I know that most parents don't aspire to their kids having piercings or overt tattoos, so wouldn't consider that a teacher who did have those things to be a role model.

I am sorry if that sounds harsh, but that is the reality, and why I know that such things are career limiting.

Gosh. I find that incredibly sad. I'm hoping that the situation at your particular school isn't reflected across society as a whole , it's incredibly depressing that the "majority" of parents would be so blinkered and shallow that looks and style of dress would even come into their specifications for a "role model".:(

But really, no matter how great a teacher is, I don't think I've ever known any kid at an "impressionable" age who would get a piercing or wear a particular style of clothing just because a teacher did, no matter how much they liked them, when they can copy, I don't know- Tinie Tempah or Marilyn Manson or whatever is their choice ;-)

Still, I believe times are changing, many places are becoming far more tolerant and this a trend which will continue - I hope!:)

aliasojo

poet123 wrote: »

In my opinion, and in the opinion of many, not all of us small minded,;) they do not present the best face or impression of any company, no matter how nice a person they are.

Been chatting to daughter about this thread (and also the 13yr old & FB thread but that's another story).

She said her school have just had someone in to talk to the kids about careers and apprenticeships. It was mainly for the kids who were leaving but it was decided that everyone could benefit from the advice so all classes were included.

One of the things that was spoken about at length was appearance and attitude. Emphasisis was put on piercings (more than tattoos) and dramatically dyed hair as being things that would put employers off, simply because of the company representation thing as poet said above.

Small minded or not, it's important to recognise that (some) companies do feel these things are a big issue.

Sorry LE, the thread clearly has grown legs now and the topic has changed somewhat from your original post.

poet123

Cat501 wrote: »

Gosh. I find that incredibly sad. I'm hoping that the situation at your particular school isn't reflected across society as a whole , it's incredibly depressing that the "majority" of parents would be so blinkered and shallow that looks and style of dress would even come into their specifications for a "role model".:(

But really, no matter how great a teacher is, I don't think I've ever known any kid at an "impressionable" age who would get a piercing or wear a particular style of clothing just because a teacher did, no matter how much they liked them, when they can copy, I don't know- Tinie Tempah or Marilyn Manson or whatever is their choice ;-)

Still, I believe times are changing, many places are becoming far more tolerant and this a trend which will continue - I hope!:)

I find that incredibly depressing from a parent charged with the task of ensuring their child achieves their potential.

It is naive in the extreme to assume or even hope that those things would not be assessed.

Why is there such a thing as dressing for interviews, or the old adage "first impressions count" etc, etc? For the reason that all these things do count when you are in a competition for scarce jobs in any field. To advise, or worse, collude with a child and therefore make them think these things are not important, or taken account of, is shortsighted imo.

Cat501

milliebear00001 wrote: »

I can very safely say, for example, that there is no way on earth a teacher wearing facial piercings or visible tattoos would be given a job at the school I teach in. Harsh? Unfair? You betcha, but that, like it or not, is life.

You admit it is harsh, more importantly you admit it is unfair.

I thought unfairness and discrimination was something to fight against, not accept

Cat501

poet123 wrote: »

I find that incredibly depressing from a parent charged with the task of ensuring their child achieves their potential.

It is naive in the extreme to assume or even hope that those things would not be assessed.

Why is there such a thing as dressing for interviews, or the old adage "first impressions count" etc, etc? For the reason that all these things do count when you are in a competition for scarce jobs in any field. To advise or worse collude with a child and therefore make them think these things are not important, or taken account of, is shortsighted imo.

She has never thought, and I have never attempted to give her the impression, that these things are not taken account of.
I am not naive, however I will not sit back and accept discrimination and prejudice and I wouldn't actively encourage any of my young adults to conform in order to please prejudiced people. Should they choose to do so that would of course be up to them.

I'm interested in the part of my post you chose to highlight. You find it depressing that I would like a kind, humane, thoughtful, tolerant person to be a role model to my kids and wouldn't care if they dressed like Coco the Clown or David blinkin' Cameron if I admired them as a person?

How bizarre.

milliebear00001

Cat501 wrote: »

You admit it is harsh, more importantly you admit it is unfair.

I thought unfairness and discrimination was something to fight against, not accept

Absolutely, and I bring my kids up to understand prejudice and discrimination in all forms as wrong, and to be challenged wherever possible. They've been on marches and everything!

BUT (and it's a big but) I would never compromise my kids' life chances because of a principle of mine. They can make that choice for themselves, when they are fully adult and informed enough about the way the world works.