Nice people thread part 6 - thrice by twice as nice :)

michaels

Most of me says if the big society is about volunteers providing essential public services then it is not a good idea. However (looks around to check Viva is not listening) I suspect many libaries are more used by the middle classes who could afford to go elsewhere and only of interest to a few of those who could really benefit so I am not sure whether it should be taxpayer funded in the first place. I may of course be wrong in my basic premis of who uses the library services.

GDB2222 wrote: »

For the librarians - http://www.hamhigh.co.uk/news/hampstead_garden_suburb_library_handover_to_volunteers_held_up_by_paperwork_delay_1_1328997

What happened is that the local authority closed down our local branch library, but a group of local volunteers have now reopened it. I think that they pay no rent or rates, and they had the book collection donated by the local authority. There are some very determined people round here!

chewmylegoff

michaels wrote: »

Bit of a sorry state of affairs when we count 18 degrees and not raining in the middle of June as 'scorchio'

it is 23 here, according to the lifts in our building anyway; scorchio.

silvercar

michaels wrote: »

Most of me says if the big society is about volunteers providing essential public services then it is not a good idea. However (looks around to check Viva is not listening) I suspect many libaries are more used by the middle classes who could afford to go elsewhere and only of interest to a few of those who could really benefit so I am not sure whether it should be taxpayer funded in the first place. I may of course be wrong in my basic premis of who uses the library services.

A lot of children use it to study in after school. Generalising, but I suspect a lot of them do so because it is quieter/ more spacious/ less distractions/ warmer in winter/has better access to computers/ than they would get at home.

michaels

I am happy to be proven wrong, I suspect living where we do we do not get a true reflection of the typical demographic that use libraries as here it is predominently middle class and those who do suffer from the issues you describe I suspect don't put the same value on learning anyway so don't bother.

silvercar wrote: »

A lot of children use it to study in after school. Generalising, but I suspect a lot of them do so because it is quieter/ more spacious/ less distractions/ warmer in winter/has better access to computers/ than they would get at home.

vivatifosi

michaels wrote: »

I am happy to be proven wrong, I suspect living where we do we do not get a true reflection of the typicla demographoc that use libraries as here it is predominently middle class and those who do suffer from the issues you describe I suspect don't put the same value on learning anyway so don't bother.

My experience is that the demographic of every library is different. For example, I doubt that michaels noticed, but there were a lot of homeless people in when he visited. With so many other social environments closing, libraries still offer somewhere warm. Homeless shelters locally are closed for about 11-12 hours a day and open overnight to breakfast, therefore it is not unusual to open your doors in the morning and see the same people out of the door at night when you close. Another library has a few elderly homes and day centres nearby so you get users that reflect that.

It's also important to realise that not all homes in the UK have internet access, but virtually everything official, from filling out emergency housing forms, to getting a passport, to applying for a driving licence they want done online. So that 20 or so percent of people that have no web access at home, they visit a library.

Volunteerism is, imo, a dangerous concept when taken to the extent of running whole libraries. Library work is for the most part poorly paid. A Library Assistant (the person you tend to meet when you go in, shelving books or answering many enquiries and joining members) gets paid £15-17k pa and it takes the best part of a year full time to know all of the aspects of the job properly. For that pitiful sum, many are degree educated, a reasonable number have masters degrees (IME a lot of teachers end up in library work). You have to know how to do the basic stuff (shelving and jacketing) as well as how to run a till, how to open and close the facility, how to manage stock, run children's sessions, have a basic understanding of copyright, and good local knowledge as to where the local schools are, shops, dentists. You need to know how to use computers and be confident enough to show the public how to use them. It runs to learning about 4 lever arch files of stuff and knowing how to apply all of it. That's just for the basic job. Imagine learning all of that as a volunteer for half a day a week. For that matter, imagine working in a library and having people swearing at you, assaulting you and doing the other crazy stuff that people do, you wonder why volunteers would even want to.

For that reason, I think volunteer schemes work better in well-off areas. In the poor areas, where you really need libraries, people are far too busy trying to earn a crust to volunteer. That's just the way it is.

GDB2222

vivatifosi wrote: »

For that reason, I think volunteer schemes work better in well-off areas. In the poor areas, where you really need libraries, people are far too busy trying to earn a crust to volunteer. That's just the way it is.

I think that all of the volunteers for the local library are either retired or semi retired, so it is not about earning a crust. The key point is that the volunteers have the skills, the vision, and the energy to do the job. They also had the self-confidence to tackle it. Whilst I probably have all the skills needed, I think that I would have given up through lack of self-confidence. I have known the chairman of the library group for many years, and he possesses all of the qualities needed.

vivatifosi

GDB2222 wrote: »

I think that all of the volunteers for the local library are either retired or semi retired, so it is not about earning a crust. The key point is that the volunteers have the skills, the vision, and the energy to do the job. They also had the self-confidence to tackle it. Whilst I probably have all the skills needed, I think that I would have given up through lack of self-confidence. I have known the chairman of the library group for many years, and he possesses all of the qualities needed.

The big concern I have is that when you look at where volunteerism has been successful, its in areas like the Chalfonts, Highgate and so on. These are extremely affluent areas. I don't doubt for one minute the skills of the people, I just doubt the (not sure this is a real word here) "replicability" of the model. Everywhere I've seen it work it's been a) in an affluent area and b) a relatively small facility.

There will definitely be a greater move towards the use of volunteers in libraries though, and work alongside other society groups, just not possibly in the most extreme sense of taking over a library facility. We all know this is happening.

Incidentally, don't worry about my concerns on this issue. Library work, while taking up a relatively large chunk of my time is not my main source of income. It's what keeps me sane and getting out and meeting people when otherwise I'd be stuck in a dark room with no human contact sweating over Excel spreadsheets. It's also the actual area of my work that I feel at liberty to discuss on an internet forum, though on a one to one basis would probably be more open in discussing what else I do. You never know who's reading here...

PasturesNew

Libraries outside of well-off areas near big towns/cities have very few books. My friend worked in a library and her town had the same number of residents as this town does, but it was a few miles from Birmingham . . . we discussed differences. e.g. her library was much bigger, it had thousands more books, it was open every day and in the evenings. Then, one day, her boss' boss turned up for a "pep talk" and stated as a fact that ".... library costs half what ours does to run - so we need to buck our ideas up". The trouble for him was he'd chosen to name my library - and so my friend piped up immediately "Yes, but it's 1/10th of the size and only open half the hours". That shut him up.

lostinrates

The nice ladies (and metrosexual chewy) will be pleased to learn i have finally had a decent haircut and 'sunkissing' of my colour.

The lovely stylist told me very sweetly she haid to take almost half a foot off the straight length, but that it would still be long. And i could tell she was itching to do something more exciting than cut of the ravaghes of neglect at the end. I also really liked the stylist. She is not british and was throroughly engaging and chatty and delightful to chat with, though i noticed some were having sifficulty with her accent.

The colourist actually did what i asked, and when i said this is what i want , what do you think, she agreed with me, but told me why she would be using certain techniques that would mean this time it might not be perfect, but after a few visits she will get on top of it. Well, i think it looks better than it has since i moved, and though it feels mighty short it also feels in better nick.

They did not try to sell be any products or treatments, and were just the right amount of busy. The walls were the colour of expensive paint and they brought be a glass of sparkliong water and a mug of herbal tea and the chair i sat in gave me a massage (prompting loads of giggling from me ).I felt so caught up in the pampering moment i regretted not booking a manicure (i never, ever have manicures, they are a waste for me, buit it was all so beautiful, and scented, and relaxing and smiley and nice i wanted to have it all). Needless to say, for such perfection and no chat about holidays it did cost more than the months groceries will, but......my hair feels nice.

PasturesNew

I just looked up the current hours here:

Mon/Tue/Fri: 9.30-5pm
Thu: 9.30-6.30pm (so that's late night)
Wed/Sun: Closed
Sat: 10-1pm

34.5 hours/week.

For a full-time working person, it's hardly accessible. Even the late night you might not have got home by 6.30, leaving Saturday morning. And Saturday morning is when you have to: visit the dentist, go to the PO, visit the garage for repairs/MoT, get tyres fitted, get your hair cut.... loads of things are only open Saturday mornings, making life difficult enough when two things clash.