UKPC parking charge - should I pay?

Waspy0906

I've read various threads and the general consensus seems to be not to pay.

However......

I got a £90 ticket this week for parking in a retail car park. I parked badly (over the white line) dashed into a shop and was in and out within 15 minutes. I returned to the ticket - I couldnt see any signs anywhere. When I found one its about 10 ft up a lamp post in small type.

What should I do - refuse to pay or accept that I parked badly?

There was lots of other space in the car park so I was in no way restricting other customers.

Thanks

AltheHibby

Do exactly the same as the rest of us - ignore them.

give_them_FA

This is made-up nonsense and totally unenforceable. In a word, scam.

Just forget all about it. After sending you a few asinine letters, so will UKPC.

Come back if you are unsure, but I promise you that's how it works.

Stephen_Leak

We don’t condone careless or inconsiderate parking but, from your description, you did neither. In any event, lines (white or yellow) on private land don't have the "force of law", although it's a good idea to treat them as if they do.

Firstly, the legal stuff.

Only councils, the police, train operators and Transport for London can impose legally enforceable fines or penalties. A private parking company (PPC) or an individual can't. Even PPCs call their tickets “Parking Charge Notices”, not “Penalty Charge Notices”. In law, they’re called “speculative invoices”.

Any warning signs are usually so badly positioned and worded, that they won’t have created a fair and legally binding deemed contract between the car park owner and a driver entering the car park in the first place. See The Unfair Contract Terms Act 1997 and Excel Parking Services vs. Cutts, Stockport, 2011, 1SE02759, the Peel Centre case.

All the car park owner (CPO) can claim from a driver in damages for any breach of contract is what they’ve lost as a result. If this is a free car park or they paid, this is £0.00. Asking for more has been judged to be unreasonable and therefore an unfair contract penalty under the terms of The Unfair Contract Terms Act 1997, which is not legally enforceable. See Dunlop Pneumatic Tyre Co. Ltd. vs. New Garage & Motor Co. Ltd., House of Lords, 1914 and countless cases since.

What should I do now?

Don’t appeal to the PPC. They always reject them. What’s in it for them to let anyone off? Actually, there is something in it for them: information. They need to know the identity of the driver of the vehicle involved at the time, because that’s who the alleged contract was with. If they don’t know who the driver was, they have to make do with chasing the registered keeper.

With windscreen notices, an appeal letter will tell them your name and address, and maybe who was driving at the time. If they don’t know who the driver was, they have to buy the details of registered keeper from the DVLA. With postal notices, they’ve done this already. But they still need to know the identity of the driver.

They sometimes say that they have the right to ask for this information. This doesn’t mean that you have to tell them.

However, even if you’ve written and told them who the driver was, it doesn’t make their actions any less unlawful. It just means that instead of harassing the registered keeper, they can now harass the driver.

What will they do to me?

The PPC, then a debt collector and then a solicitor will send you a series of letters. The debt collector and solicitor are usually also the PPC, but using different headed paper. These letters will threaten you with every kind of financial and legal unpleasantness imaginable, to intimidate you into paying.

But, they can't actually do anything, for the same reason that a Nigerian e-mail scammer couldn't sue anyone who didn’t pay them.

What should I do then?

Continue to ignore everything you get from the PPC and their aliases. It does seem counter-intuitive to deal with something by ignoring it. Eventually, they will run out of empty threats, and stop throwing good money after bad.

PS. Out of interest, I noticed an intriguing T&C at the council car park at Dix's Field in Exeter saying that you must park in marked bays ... for safety reasons. (Yes, I know. I ought to stay in more!)

give_them_FA

Stephen_Leak wrote: »

PS. Out of interest, I noticed an intriguing T&C at the council car park at Dix's Field in Exeter saying that you must park in marked bays ... for safety reasons. (Yes, I know. I ought to stay in more!)

Absolutely right. It is for safety reasons. If you don't there's a danger of getting.... an unenforceable invoice.

Coupon-mad

Waspy0906 wrote: »

I've read various threads and the general consensus seems to be not to pay.

However......

I got a £90 ticket this week for parking in a retail car park. I parked badly (over the white line) dashed into a shop and was in and out within 15 minutes. I returned to the ticket - I couldnt see any signs anywhere. When I found one its about 10 ft up a lamp post in small type.

What should I do - refuse to pay or accept that I parked badly?

There was lots of other space in the car park so I was in no way restricting other customers.

Thanks

This whole fake PCN thing is soooo obviously a scam I am constantly amazed when people still seem unsure.

Think about it...

If you were inside that retail shop and they had a sign up by the tills saying you had to queue in a straight line...and you didn't...would you honestly worry about not paying if they said you had to pay some random £50?! Even if they pointed to the signs?! :rotfl:

Or if you accidentally dropped litter in the shop, would you get your money out to pay £50 if an agent/employee of the retailer rushed up and said you faced a penalty for littering?!

No!! Obviously you would think they were stark raving mad, as clearly no-one can 'fine' another for a 'made up' thing like not queuing straight, and everyone knows that only Councils can possibly issue penalties for on-street littering...

So, what everyone should also know is that only Councils/Police/TFL (or rarely, a Train Operator like Northern Rail) can issue a real penalty for parking.


But things changed a bit in 2013, since the POFA 2012 and the fact that some PPCs are taking people to court.


DO NOT IGNORE UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI.

But you don't pay either.

Read the current forum instead of an archive thread!

See my signature for where to click to see current threads.

give_them_FA

You could try putting a Notice on your car (in a prominent place, of course) saying that any person or organisation that attaches or affixes any document to your vehicle (unless authorised by Act of Parliament) enters into a contractual obligation to pay you £100.

See what the parking moron makes of that one.....

Benno4

Hello!

I've just recieved 2 parking tickets for parking in my own registered space at my property. The car park is managed by UKPC. They stated that my permit was not on display.

The permit has my name and address on it and I don't like having that information on display while I'm out and about so I only put it on the dash when I'm home. I forgot to put it up and had it down by the radio in the car, these two times I recieved parking tickets.

I recently moved to this address and found when I viisted my old address 3 letters stating the 2 parking fines. one for £90 and one for £150 from a debt collector. I immediately appealed both because this is my own space! Both appeals were rejected.

What should I do? I can't afford to pay £240 for parking in my own space! They have all my information becasue I'm registered as the car park space owner.

Any advice would be great!

Very worried,
Alan :mad::mad::mad:

SodG24

Benno4 wrote: »

Hello!

I've just recieved 2 parking tickets for parking in my own registered space at my property. The car park is managed by UKPC. They stated that my permit was not on display.

The permit has my name and address on it and I don't like having that information on display while I'm out and about so I only put it on the dash when I'm home. I forgot to put it up and had it down by the radio in the car, these two times I recieved parking tickets.

I recently moved to this address and found when I viisted my old address 3 letters stating the 2 parking fines. one for £90 and one for £150 from a debt collector. I immediately appealed both because this is my own space! Both appeals were rejected.

What should I do? I can't afford to pay £240 for parking in my own space! They have all my information becasue I'm registered as the car park space owner.

Any advice would be great!

Very worried,
Alan :mad::mad::mad:

Firstly there's nothing they can do to YOU but plenty you can do to them !!! Their invoice is clearly not legitimate.

You've appealed and had a rejection - did they give you a POPLA code ? If so appeal to POPLA as it will cost UKPC £32 and even if you lose there's nothing they can do about it.

If they didn't give you a POPLA code then write back saying that they have two choices - supply the POPLA code or cancel the tickets.

Once you've dealt with that it's time to tell your managing agents that you remove yourself and your parking spot from the parking scheme and do not recognise the right of UKPC to patrol your space. Tell them that if you continue to get tickets from UKPC you will sue the managing agents for harassment as UKPC are their agents.

Above all don't worry - their invoice is TOTALLY unenforceable.

trisontana

Just ignore. It's as simple as that. You don't owe them a penny.

ManxRed

A ticket for trespassing on your own land.

Only the occupier of the land can bring a claim in respect of trespass. That would be you. So unless you sue yourself, you've nothing to worry about.

Tell the Managing Agents to do one. Completely ignore UKPC and anything they write to you.