Could this ever happen in England?

Person_one

zaksmum wrote: »

My father was desperately worried that he was losing his mind, though it was in fact hypoxia confusion. A nurse told me he'd just been assessed for physio, as I was going into his room. He protested that he definitely hadn't been.

The nurse rolled her eyes at me and tapped the side of her head in a gesture indicating "He's nuts".

I managed to get hold of the physio who I'd been told had assessed him, she laughed and admitted that he had not in fact been assessed.

Due to her massive caseload, the same nurse had advised she skip assessment of patients who were elderly as it was obvious they'd definitely need physio, and just tell the patients' families they had been assessed!

Did you make a complaint?

Mojisola

zaksmum wrote: »

Due to her massive caseload, the same nurse had advised she skip assessment of patients who were elderly as it was obvious they'd definitely need physio, and just tell the patients' families they had been assessed!

We had the opposite experience. When we went to visit, my relative told us that he had been assessed but didn't know who by and that he'd signed something but didn't know what it was.

We asked the nurse for a copy of what he'd signed - my parents were always given copies of anything physios and SS got them to sign - and she insisted that he had been hallucinating and that no-one had been to see him - "It happens when they're on morphine."

When I produced the grab rail the physio had left with him and asked whether he could have materialised it while he was hallucinating, she rapidly backtracked! The signed paperwork never appeared.

I never worked out what the physio was thinking of - giving him a grab rail to take home with him. Organising a home visit and arranging to have grab rails fitted which is what Mum's OT did, I could understand but my relative was hardly in a state to start doing DIY.

zaksmum

Person_one wrote: »

Did you make a complaint?

You bet I did! I was furious! My father was distressed enough without that kind of thing adding to his problems.

Waste of time though. They just concluded there'd been a language misunderstanding and assured me it wouldn't happen again.

Had it not been for the fact that my siblings felt that it wouldn't bring my father back, I'd have taken legal action against them for medical negligence.

This incident with the physio was far from isolated - there were so many times I found my father in tears because he'd been shouted at, or told to "go to the toilet" in the bed, or found a day's worth of tablets (14) on the floor of his room because someone had dumped them on his bedside table in a little plastic pot and left him to it...he was almost blind and had knocked them over fumbling for them. Just put them in the bin, the nurse said. Meaning he hadn't had that day's tablets, and nobody gave a damn.

And the dressing on the very painful ulcer on his leg, left unchanged for a week although his notes said it'd been changed daily. The pattern the exudate made on the outside of the dressing gave it away...proof it was the same dressing. They admitted that too in the end. Been too busy to change it...!

I could go on all night. He was just one of many, though, just a tired, sick old man who became an inconvenience.

Fighting his corner made no difference in the end...but God help those who have nobody to even do that much for them.

poet123

zaksmum wrote: »

You bet I did! I was furious! My father was distressed enough without that kind of thing adding to his problems.

Waste of time though. They just concluded there'd been a language misunderstanding and assured me it wouldn't happen again.

Had it not been for the fact that my siblings felt that it wouldn't bring my father back, I'd have taken legal action against them for medical negligence.

This incident with the physio was far from isolated - there were so many times I found my father in tears because he'd been shouted at, or told to "go to the toilet" in the bed, or found a day's worth of tablets (14) on the floor of his room because someone had dumped them on his bedside table in a little plastic pot and left him to it...he was almost blind and had knocked them over fumbling for them. Just put them in the bin, the nurse said. Meaning he hadn't had that day's tablets, and nobody gave a damn.

And the dressing on the very painful ulcer on his leg, left unchanged for a week although his notes said it'd been changed daily. The pattern the exudate made on the outside of the dressing gave it away...proof it was the same dressing. They admitted that too in the end. Been too busy to change it...!

I could go on all night. He was just one of many, though, just a tired, sick old man who became an inconvenience.

Fighting his corner made no difference in the end...but God help those who have nobody to even do that much for them.

That was why we didn't take any action either, my mother was distraught, they had been married 51 years.....we couldn't put her through any more. Perhaps they rely on that?

I fought for my mother though, but as you say, in the end it made little difference.

WolfSong2000

poet123 wrote: »

That was why we didn't take any action either, my mother was distraught, they had been married 51 years.....we couldn't put her through any more. Perhaps they rely on that?

I fought for my mother though, but as you say, in the end it made little difference.

I know a (now thankfully retired) local GP had a lucky escape from being sued by my grandfather. His wife came back from Africa with malaria, but he refused to diagnose it, despite classic symptoms. My grandmother went back repeatedly, along with my mother, only to be told it was flu, she was being neurotic, etc. On a friday, my mother asked for a needle so she could draw blood and send the bloodwork off herself (she was a vet nurse and desperate at this point). GP "relented" and said he'd send grandmother to hospital for blood tests on the monday...she died over the weekend - from malaria. My mother was furious, but grandfather refused to take matters further.

The sheer incompetence of some doctors is really quite scary...the GP I mention, whilst being a perfectly pleasant individual had earned the nickname locally of "Dr Death" because of a number of similar blunders he made with other patients (the mother of a friend of mine went to see him about a mole - he said it was nothing. she sought a second opinion and it turned out to be cancerous).

NHS also sent my father home after a medical procedure for kidney stones, but had failed to spot he was bleeding internally (apparently the procedure is non-invasive and normally "fine" so they never bothered to check).

Not saying all doctors are useless, but there's enough to make me think twice...

andyrules

Austin_Allegro wrote: »

Yes, it does happen in England - but this is done in a humane way under sedation - the patient does not feel hungry/thirsty or suffer in any way.

When my late father was in hospital, he had advanced Parkinson's Disease and was comatose from severe pneumonia. There was no way he could recover consciousness so we were asked if we wanted to continue antibiotic treatment to allow him to live a few days longer, or withdraw fluids/drip to allow him to die more quickly.

After some consideration we went for the latter option, though I spoke to several nurses and doctors to be assured that he wouldn't suffer, because he was kept in a euphoric state on morphine. He died after about three days. So please don't worry - sometimes this method is the most humane option.

It does not always happen like this, in fact the LCP is open to interpretation and abuse. There is a world of difference between easing someone's passage with morphine and serving a death sentence.

HeatherintheHills

Person_one wrote: »

I think the part immediately after what you quoted was relevant, regarding narcotics and sedation. Removing that makes it look very different.

Selective quoting can be a bit dodgy.

OK, the full paragraph was

Person_one wrote:

Its illegal to give them something with the intention of killing them, but most dying patients end their lives on several narcotics and sedatives, often including high doses of diamorphine. Everything is done to make it as peaceful and pain free as possible.

The bit in bold was the bit I didn't quote because, in all honesty, I considered that to be an opinion, not a fact.

Person_one, I'm can tell from your posts that you are a very caring professional who does their absolute best for their patients and I thank you for that. But if you take one step back and read this thread you will see that far too many people have genuine concerns. These things really do happen, it isn't just us not understanding or not having things explained to us.

We have to find a way of accepting that something is wrong and doing what we can to put it right as a society. This is a subject that really needs to be aired and discussed.

So many of us live in genuine and growing fear of what may happen to us if we have to spend the end of our lives in hospital. That is so wrong and it means that what are hopefully a minority of uncaring medical staff are tainting the reputation of the profession as a whole. It must be addressed, for all of our sakes.

jellyhead

JC9297 wrote: »

Whether to resuscitate or not is a clinical decision and is not taken lightly. If families were involved in the decision many would not want medical staff to let nature take its course and would want them to attempt resus whatever the situation.

Also, families might not agree on a decision, especially if the ones who rarely visit don't know what the person would have wanted if they could make the decision themselves.

Mojisola

jellyhead wrote: »

Also, families might not agree on a decision, especially if the ones who rarely visit don't know what the person would have wanted if they could make the decision themselves.

That's why the hospital asks for a next of kin who can make these decisions. It's best if all the family agree, otherwise the NOK makes a decision.

zaksmum

Mojisola wrote: »

That's why the hospital asks for a next of kin who can make these decisions. It's best if all the family agree, otherwise the NOK makes a decision.

We certainly were not asked for any decision! First we knew of a DNR notice on my father was when we requested his notes after he passed away, and the DNR notice was the first document we saw.