Could this ever happen in England?

Wine_of_the_World

I agree that better communication between patients and families would really help
My elderly relative is now in a care home, partly because she is at high risk of falls, having fell numerous times previously. I feel lucky that it was explained to us that being in a care home– or anywhere – she is at no lesser risk of having a fall – especially as she loves to wonder around, but that she would have help sooner than if she fell at home. Also, even she falls with a nurse or carer, it’s not their job to catch her or break her fall, so again she is at no lesser risk of falling supervised or not.
She actually fell out of bed in hospital – in a bed with not cot sides . But, a friend who is a nurse explained that cot sides are often left down on some patients to lower the risk of injury as patients may actually fall from the top of the cot rail. This wasn’t explained to us at the time so I thought it was the hospitals fault!
I know not everything is perfect in the NHS, but I actually believe its better than a lot of people think. Staff work harder than people think too – especially carers and health care assistants who work for crap money (carers often for private companies so don’t even get the benefits of pensions etc) but seem to take the flak for everything and anything that goes wrong with someone’s care. I don’t think I could do their job- for an hour let alone a day!
I think mis-comminication has a lot to answer for-if things are not understood clearly then its very easy to get a different idea of what’s going on.

POPPYOSCAR

Hope you are ok.

poet123

Wine_of_the_World wrote: »

I agree that better communication between patients and families would really help
My elderly relative is now in a care home, partly because she is at high risk of falls, having fell numerous times previously. I feel lucky that it was explained to us that being in a care home– or anywhere – she is at no lesser risk of having a fall – especially as she loves to wonder around, but that she would have help sooner than if she fell at home. Also, even she falls with a nurse or carer, it’s not their job to catch her or break her fall, so again she is at no lesser risk of falling supervised or not.
She actually fell out of bed in hospital – in a bed with not cot sides . But, a friend who is a nurse explained that cot sides are often left down on some patients to lower the risk of injury as patients may actually fall from the top of the cot rail. This wasn’t explained to us at the time so I thought it was the hospitals fault!
I know not everything is perfect in the NHS, but I actually believe its better than a lot of people think. Staff work harder than people think too – especially carers and health care assistants who work for crap money (carers often for private companies so don’t even get the benefits of pensions etc) but seem to take the flak for everything and anything that goes wrong with someone’s care. I don’t think I could do their job- for an hour let alone a day!
I think mis-comminication has a lot to answer for-if things are not understood clearly then its very easy to get a different idea of what’s going on.

I am not sure if you mention falls etc in response to my post? However, I do agree with a lot of what you say, it was not the fact that my mother had a fall which caused us the angst, accidents can and do happen and with the best will in the world no one patient can be watched 24/7. It was the fact that until the lesion was found on pm no one told us it had happened, yet when it was found the staff admitted they had known about it and seen the injury, but not told us or noted it down. That was why we received the apology from the trust.

Maybe many things do stem from miscommunication, but not all. A lot of staff do work very hard for low wages but that has no relevance when things happen which should not happen in a civilised caring society. I think people do value the NHS, but that does not mean we have to gloss over the less than palatable facts.

poet123

OP I hope you are OK? My sympathy on your loss, take care.

POPPYOSCAR

poet123 wrote: »

I am not sure if you mention falls etc in response to my post? However, I do agree with a lot of what you say, it was not the fact that my mother had a fall which caused us the angst, accidents can and do happen and with the best will in the world no one patient can be watched 24/7. It was the fact that until the lesion was found on pm no one told us it had happened, yet when it was found the staff admitted they had known about it and seen the injury, but not told us or noted it down. That was why we received the apology from the trust.

Maybe many things do stem from miscommunication, but not all. A lot of staff do work very hard for low wages but that has no relevance when things happen which should not happen in a civilised caring society. I think people do value the NHS, but that does not mean we have to gloss over the less than palatable facts.

Yes, they can be tremendous at times but we do have to accept that not all care is as it should be.

Take the whistleblower nurse who was sacked, I remember signing a petition to get her re-instated. It was outrageous the way she was treated, she should have been promoted for bringing to the attention of the authorities the failings in the system.

HeatherintheHills

Person_one wrote: »

Did you even read the rest of my post after the bit you quoted?

Of course. But I chose to quote the fact you kindly provided. The rest of your post was your opinion, which I don't disagree with, but didn't wish to comment further on.

HeatherintheHills

WolfSong2000 wrote: »

As to the poster who was asking about what would have been preferable...with other relatives the nurses have shown the familyhow to use the morphine drip when it's pretty obvious that "the time has come", so essentially one can just keep upping the morphine...some doctors do this as well, to "keep the patient pain free"...does this, but also kills them, but much more humanely than withdrawing fluids,, which can take days.

I've experience of this too and am grateful beyond words that it happened that way for someone who I loved very much.

I've come to believe that one of the factors that the medical profession forget is that by the time they meet the patient they are often in very poor condition and are no longer the people they once were. I think this is especially true of dementia patients, for example.

It may seem kinder to let a suffering patient, who has no life expectancy or quality of life left, go by withdrawing hydration. A relative is perhaps aware of suffering, or maybe I mean indignities, to the dying person's personality. Perhaps that is why it is so hard to watch someone you love on the lengthy withdrawal pathway rather than the morphine drip. I was young when my dying grandfather was refused hydration even though he kept asking for a drink. I had many memories of him really enjoying a cup of tea and couldn't understand why such a simple pleasure was denied him in his final days.

In no way is this a criticism of health professionals, they have a difficult job to do. But perhaps it helps explain, in part at least, why the hydration withdrawal pathway upsets so many relatives.

nickj_2

vax2002 wrote: »

The Bigger debate is why we allow people to suffer, you know when its your time.

because the medical profession has put quantity of life over quality

Person_one

HeatherintheHills wrote: »

Of course. But I chose to quote the fact you kindly provided. The rest of your post was your opinion, which I don't disagree with, but didn't wish to comment further on.

I think the part immediately after what you quoted was relevant, regarding narcotics and sedation. Removing that makes it look very different.

Selective quoting can be a bit dodgy.

zaksmum

My father was desperately worried that he was losing his mind, though it was in fact hypoxia confusion. A nurse told me he'd just been assessed for physio, as I was going into his room. He protested that he definitely hadn't been.

The nurse rolled her eyes at me and tapped the side of her head in a gesture indicating "He's nuts".

I managed to get hold of the physio who I'd been told had assessed him, she laughed and admitted that he had not in fact been assessed.

Due to her massive caseload, the same nurse had advised she skip assessment of patients who were elderly as it was obvious they'd definitely need physio, and just tell the patients' families they had been assessed!