Could this ever happen in England?

xxdeebeexx

My neice has come over to England to visit my Dad who is desperately ill. She was telling me about the time her maternal Grandfather died and that the medical profession withheld food and water to speed up his passing. She told me how her Grand dad was crying out for a drink but they weren't allowed to give him one!!

Her description has shaken me to the bone and has made me very very upset................... could this happen to my dad?

dx

babymoo

You don't mention how old your niece is and where she lives for this to happen or if he was in a hospital or a home?

I can't see that happening here though, what a horrible thought.

Dinah93

My grandma had a massive stroke last year, they told us the same day she would never wake up. After 4 weeks in hospital they began what they termed 'withdrawl from life care' - basically the stopped my grandma's drip so she was getting no fluids or nutrients. It took her another 6 days to pass, but obviously she was completely unconcious through this. It sounds barbaric to do it to someone concious and begging for a drink, surely that's torture? Where on earth does your niece live?

Variable

This scenario should never happen here (or anywhere!)
These days hospitals use a system known as the "end of life" care pathway.

If a patient is not improving from treatment, doctors can make a decision to withdraw treatment and allow the patient to die.

The end of life care pathway is designed to give comfort to the patient in their last few days. Drugs are made available to help them relax, and they can take what oral fluids and food they wish (as long as there is no choking hazard naturally) and mouthcare.

Im just stating general information as you hadnt said anything specific, but from what you have written im assuming your father may be ill.

superpup

No.

My mum is upstairs right now, advanced stages of lung cancer. Doctor, district nurse, hospice nurse, all visit weekly, doing all they can to make sure she is as comfortable as possible. This includes prescribing special high calorie drinks in addition to her medication. Mum is very, very frail but hanging on and surprising us all. Even if she was in hospital I can't see that they would be doing anything differently to me. She would be encouraged to eat and drink just the same as here.

l33na

I don't think it happens. I don't know what country your niece is from where this has happened but don't really want to believe that it can happen in any country.

Personal experience my father was very poorly in his last days and we were told he would not make it but still we were given full access to him and stayed with him. We were fully involved in his care and our questions were always answered by the doctors on the ward.
We did not feel that just because he was DNR his treatment was different. My father was made comfortable as could be and was monitored at all times.

All the best with your dad and i wish for him to get well soon.:grouphug:

Uniscots97

I'm maybe quite cynical in this but have had bitter experience of this 3 times. OH's Mum was severly dehydrated in her last days in hospital (cancer of the uterus that spread), and OH would visit and be dismissed by the staff when asked why they hadn't given her a drink (late 1990's); my Grandfather suffered a stroke and was taken to an NHS rehabilitation centre, the staff were rude, ignored patients and said my Grandfather and other patients were agressive when in fact they were asking for a drink/to go to the toilet, some had catheters in and were left with their bag overflowing, each time the staff were in the office gabbing about nights out/getting drunk/tv, we made sure my Grandfather was kept hydrated and fed (they said he refused food, a lie, they didn't spend time to realise he couldnt hold the fork/spoon..... he'd just had a stroke for heavens sake); and most recently my Grandparents neighbour who received simialr treatment to my Grandfather and unfortunately didn't make it through.

My family lodged several complaints about the staff involved (there were a few who were good but were left by the others to do ALL the work), my Grandfather's consultant was shocked by the evidence we gathered and the ward sister (or whatever they're called) should still be ashamed of herself. The staff were moved on although the ward sister received a formal warning and re-training. So yes unfortunately it can happen in this country. These three incidents happened in 3 separate hospitals.

fluffnutter

I'm not disputing your niece's clear distress or interpretation of what happened to her grandfather, but how old is she and what does the rest of the family think? It's very difficult to watch someone die, and it's not uncommon to project those feelings onto the medical staff and start believing that not enough's being done.

Dying is hard work basically and not a nice process to watch. This doesn't mean that the medical staff were inhumane.

It would have been useful to know which country this took place in.

vax2002

The Bigger debate is why we allow people to suffer, you know when its your time.

zaksmum

When my father was in hospital the final time, aged 84, we had to keep a bit of a vigil by his bed. He'd been placed on a pureed diet because the "swallowing team" - a young girl right out of university - had decreed he was in danger of aspiration.

He was in a side room on his own due to contracting MRSA there, and I just can't tell you the number of times no food arrived for him at mealtimes. We'd have to find a staff member we could actually communicate with, and point out he'd had no meal. Notes would be consulted, the kitchen staff would be contacted and a meal promised "within the hour".

Guess what? No meal. Time after time. We complained to just about everyone, and occasionally something like a rock hard cold jacket potato would be sent into him...on a pureed diet!

Eventually my poor father died, weighing just over 6 stone.

When we requested his notes, there was a DNR (do not resuscitate) order which had been signed without our knowledge. I was absolutely furious, and certainly would've taken legal advice, but some of my siblings didn't want this so I had to let it go.

I believe that elderly patients are routinely left to starve to death in Britain. Didn't this method become known as the Liverpool Pathway?

Person_one

zaksmum wrote: »

the "swallowing team" - a young girl right out of university -

So, a qualified speech and language therapist then?

Trust me, you wouldn't have wanted him to end up with aspiration pneumonia, or to choke to death.