Could this ever happen in England?

aliasojo

Person_one wrote: »

Those 'bits' were stuck in so you could point them out when you were pulled up on your ridiculous assertions.

I got your point well enough.

What on Earth is 'Chief of Police' by the way?

Oh my.

You're really out to be defensive so I'm going to leave you to it. Your argument is just silly now.

It's a title. Or it least it was, when he was one.

Person_one

aliasojo wrote: »

It's a title. Or it least it was, when he was one.

You mean a rank? I don't think it was, where and when was this?

theoldcynic

These are the reasons I am going to make a living will to ensure I am never put on the LCP.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/6127514/Sentenced-to-death-on-the-NHS.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/6298866/Terminally-ill-grandmother-left-to-starve-by-doctors.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/8928182/Loved-ones-not-always-told-their-relative-is-on-controversial-death-pathway.html

The state has legislated on enough areas of my life and I will do everything possible to ensure it does not legislate on how and when I die.

mcja

My grampy passed away 4 weeks ago, and he refused to sign a DNR despite the fact he was incredibly poorly. He was artifically fed for about 10 days (or whatever the max time is) but as he was unable to sit up to swallow food he was put on a fluid drip but they were unable to feed him. He basically had nutrition withdrawn to speed up the inevitable.

Whilst I know that this may not be the right thing for some people something needed to be done to help a wonderful man pass away without pain.

andyrules

pm04gn wrote: »

The LCP has changed palliative care in this country for the better. It's worth remembering that patients can come off the LCP if the situation changes for the better. It's not a one way street to death but to aid those whom appear to be nearing the end. It's also got a strict set of criteria. Worth having a look at an LCP form if you've ongoing concerns.

My experience of palliative care before LCP was TLC and morphine, reserved for people in advanced stages of a terminal disease. Now it has a fancy name and is attractive to doctors who are making decisions that. quite frankly, are in a grey area, and involve, to a large extent, the elderly.

I am well aware that a patient can come off the LCP, but they would be in a poor state by then, with severe dehydration added to their general condition. Also, it does beg the question - why were they even on it? It surely SHOULD have been because they were dying, not because they were very poorly.

Torry_Quine

andyrules wrote: »

My experience of palliative care before LCP was TLC and morphine, reserved for people in advanced stages of a terminal disease. Now it has a fancy name and is attractive to doctors who are making decisions that. quite frankly, are in a grey area, and involve, to a large extent, the elderly.

I am well aware that a patient can come off the LCP, but they would be in a poor state by then, with severe dehydration added to their general condition. Also, it does beg the question - why were they even on it? It surely SHOULD have been because they were dying, not because they were very poorly.

I have no experience of the LCP but have to say that TLC and morphine was what I've been involved with.

As you say no-one should ever be on the LCP who could be able to improve enough to come off it. That makes no sense at all to me unless of course as you say they weren't actually in the end stages of life.

pm04gn

Torry_Quine wrote: »

I have no experience of the LCP but have to say that TLC and morphine was what I've been involved with.

As you say no-one should ever be on the LCP who could be able to improve enough to come off it. That makes no sense at all to me unless of course as you say they weren't actually in the end stages of life.

Very rarely remarkable things happen and situations turn around. Normally only for days/weeks but it does happen. Most will still pass in days to weeks. Medicine is not an exact science and elderly care is a minefield. If the social care system were improved then there wouldn't be elderly patients sat in beds waiting for carers, home modifications or care homes. Less chance of getting pneumonia/c diff/cellulitis etc that could potentially be life threatening.

poet123

Person_one wrote: »

You mean a rank? I don't think it was, where and when was this?

Those officers who hold ranks which have the title "Chief" contained within their overall title such as; Chief Constable, Chief Superintendent and Chief Inspector are, or certainly were, often referred to as "Chief of Police" by locals and the general populace.

poet123

aliasojo wrote: »

I honestly don't want to offend anyone, I realise there are a lot of caring stars out there BUT years ago, nursing was almost like a 'calling'. It was a profession that attracted people who wanted to help, to care, to make a difference to people. I believe our society these days has changed so much that people are more selfish, more insular and go into careers like this simply because 'there's not much else'.....< those were the exact words spoken by someone who is a nurse. She didn't particularly want to go care for people, she just wanted a job she thought would give her the best chance of staying employed.

As I said, I know there are a lot of good professionals, but I believe they aren't the huge majority that they once were.

I agree with this, only this week I was talking to a colleague who was thinking of a career change and nursing came up as a topic. Her take was that she thought she might fancy it....but not the nastier aspects!! A smaller number of of those going into nursing seem to have a true "vocation" for it than used to be the case, and it shows.

Candy53

My dad also had his drip taken off. He had cancer, but the sad thing was, the medication he was on, that was very effective in killing it, made him have kidney failure.

We too sat vigil with him. He was in and out of consciousness. Then a nurse came in and took his drip off. I felt angry and shocked for a start, but the doctor explained to us that there was nothing more they could do for him. He was then given drugs to keep him asleep, untill he passed away. He fought for quite a while though bless him, before he let go.

Candy