Could this ever happen in England?

carpedieme

This thread has degenerated into slagging off hospital staff!!:(

HeatherintheHills

carpedieme wrote: »

This thread has degenerated into slagging off hospital staff!!:(

Not at all. This thread is questioning a process used within the NHS.

All staff must follow the guidelines given to them, but every so often those guidelines need to be re-examined. That isn't a reflection on the staff using them.

aliasojo

My Aunt died last year. She was very old (90's) and infirm, deaf and dumb and had learning difficulties. She was also now losing her sight. My sister and BIL had done a stellar job of caring for her over the years but towards the end, her quality of life had reduced. She stopped eating voluntarily, she simply had no appetite. She started having a series of strokes, the last one left her unconscious.

It was agreed that her time had come, the woman was little more than a shell and had no prospect of life at all. Hard as it was, it was also a blessing for her to pass.

Even so the Doctors still couldn't do anything to help her on her way other than withdraw fluids. As she was unconscious, it made no difference to her, she didn't experience any discomfort thankfully.

Family sat by her bedside for a week waiting for her to pass. The Doctors said it would be 2 days. The stress, the guilt, the worry that this was the wrong thing (especially from day 3 onwards) etc etc were all consuming. Despite initially strongly believing this was the right thing, all sorts of emotions rise and play a part in sowing seeds of doubt. It's a terrible process.

There should be some sort of access to a more pro active method to help people in this type of situation pass. I think it is absolutely ridiculous that we are happy to interfere with nature in just about every other medical way but we wont interfere with impending death.

I also absolutely firmly firmly believe that nursing (along with other professions such as the Police for example) is not fully staffed by the high calibre of person it used to have years ago.

I honestly don't want to offend anyone, I realise there are a lot of caring stars out there BUT years ago, nursing was almost like a 'calling'. It was a profession that attracted people who wanted to help, to care, to make a difference to people. I believe our society these days has changed so much that people are more selfish, more insular and go into careers like this simply because 'there's not much else'.....< those were the exact words spoken by someone who is a nurse. She didn't particularly want to go care for people, she just wanted a job she thought would give her the best chance of staying employed.

As I said, I know there are a lot of good professionals, but I believe they aren't the huge majority that they once were.

Last time my son was in hospital, the chap in the next bed was shouting for a drink. It was midnight and everyone was ignoring him. The nurse eventually came and told him he was getting nothing. He was obviously on a restricted fluid intake but he told her he'd not got his previous hours drink either. She called him a liar and told him she was busy and couldn't be coming to see him every two minutes. He wouldn't shut up and kept asking her to check his chart, she said she didn't need to and he wasn't getting a drink. He was almost crying by now and she finally relented and checked his chart, only to find out he was right. No-one had given him his drink in hours. Even then, her attitude towards him whilst giving him his drink was abrupt and awful. He was able to complain loudly but what of those who couldn't?

gravitytolls

poet123 wrote: »

When things started to go wrong with my mothers care, we complained, and believe me it was a fight, a fight which culminated in her death, with a contributory factor to that being a fall and resultant injury. That fall and the injury was covered up, and ultimately we received an apology from the trust for their failings.

How far do you go? Should we have sued, does money talk?

This is exactly my nanny's story, inedaquate care, disinterested staff resulting in a fall, broken bones, operation and death. Somebody should've been accountable for the appalling care and lack of respect, not to mention downright lies, on that ward. No one was, the trust and staff were only interested in 'investigations' resulting in a no fault result, blaming agency staff and hoping an apology and a promise of it not happening again would suffice. It did, because grandad, elderly and grieving, accepted that.

carpedieme

Its very easy to make hospital staff the scapegoats, the vast majority are caring and always have been. A very very difficult job is done on a daily basis, but every time the news comes on it seems to be a free for all, lets slag off nurses/hospital staff, thats all I am prepared to say or go into detail on a public forum, give praise where praise is due, hopefully uncaring staff should be rooted out as a disgrace to the proffession and tarring everyone withthe same brush.:(

Person_one

aliasojo wrote: »

I also absolutely firmly firmly believe that nursing (along with other professions such as the Police for example) is not fully staffed by the high calibre of person it used to have years ago.

I honestly don't want to offend anyone, I realise there are a lot of caring stars out there BUT years ago, nursing was almost like a 'calling'. It was a profession that attracted people who wanted to help, to care, to make a difference to people. I believe our society these days has changed so much that people are more selfish, more insular and go into careers like this simply because 'there's not much else'.....< those were the exact words spoken by someone who is a nurse. She didn't particularly want to go care for people, she just wanted a job she thought would give her the best chance of staying employed.

As I said, I know there are a lot of good professionals, but I believe they aren't the huge majority that they once were.

Your post is just massively insulting to every single nurse (and policeman) out there just trying to do a difficult job well and make the world a slightly nicer place in their own small way. Trust me, I had options, I gave up a far more lucrative and comfortable career to go into nursing, but apparently I did it because I'm selfish. Thanks.

(Young women really did used to go into nursing because it was 'all there was' for respectable middle class girls until they got married and stopped working. That or teaching.)

jellyhead

On a positive not my local hospital had made a lot of mistakes and is always in the news.

I've noticed this time around that things have changed for the better. Policies seem to have changed to prevent some of the mistakes from happening again

pm04gn

andyrules wrote: »

If the patient is near CERTAIN death then morphine provides a good analgesic. My concern with the LCP is that now it's out there, doctors think it's the magic answer to elderly, difficult cases. Ageism is alive and well in the medical world and it is my belief that the LCP is aiding and abetting.

The LCP has changed palliative care in this country for the better. It's worth remembering that patients can come off the LCP if the situation changes for the better. It's not a one way street to death but to aid those whom appear to be nearing the end. It's also got a strict set of criteria. Worth having a look at an LCP form if you've ongoing concerns.

aliasojo

Person_one wrote: »

Your post is just massively insulting to every single nurse (and policeman) out there just trying to do a difficult job well and make the world a slightly nicer place in their own small way. Trust me, I had options, I gave up a far more lucrative and comfortable career to go into nursing, but apparently I did it because I'm selfish. Thanks.

Hey no worries. Glad to be of service. :rotfl:

Now when you manage to get down off your high horse, you might want to re-read what I wrote. At no point did I say ALL. You made that bit up for yourself.

You really are determined to be offended over certain things Person One. Things that aren't even there.

I said:

'not fully staffed',

I realise there are a lot of caring stars out there'

'I know there are a lot of good caring professionals'

'but I believe they aren't the huge majority that they once were'.

But why bother with those bits? Just you go right ahead and twist my words so they suit your own offended sensibilities.

Clearly my experiences or opinions will not be the same as yours, but does that give you the right to feel offended on behalf of every good caring professional? I don't think so.

And for the record, I come from a family background where the Police and Health Service featured heavily. My Grandfather was once Chief of Police and I have relatives who work in hospitals now, so yes, I do actually feel qualified to give an opinion. Despite you not liking it.

Person_one

Those 'bits' were stuck in so you could point them out when you were pulled up on your ridiculous assertions.

I got your point well enough.

What on Earth is 'Chief of Police' by the way?