Bigoted best friend?

shocked222

Hermia wrote: »

I'm also a mixture, but am very fair-skinned (my mum is the palest woman in the world and diluted all my dad's genes!) and people make racist remarks in my presence assuming that I won't mind 'cause I'm basically white!

I would not be able to be friends with any bigoted person, but I'm a arty-farty liberal sociology graduate so I can't imagine they'd want to be friends with me. I can understand how upset you are. It's hard to discover someone is not what you thought they were.

Ditto! People don't realise I'm mixed and come out with all the stuff they would never say in front of a black person - my brother is blonde! I'm a humanities and arts graduate, psychology post-graduate - had to study evolution as part of my psychology and REALLY wanted to tell her that she was talking utter dung.

Blue_Elephant

Oh my. Have a hug or 3.

I have friends who have massively differing views to me on many subjects, politics, religion, you name it. As long as you have respect for the other persons views, it's fine.

One person I considered a friend (not a best friend admittedly), made some reference to "Pakis" in conversation, at which point I raised an eyebrow to be met with "Well *you* don't count". They managed to insult me twice in 30 seconds. I don't count? Obviously. I dropped them off my radar. didn't say anything to mutual friends as I didn't want to cause a row. But folk noticed I was going out of my way to avoid this person, and as I won't lie to my friends if they ask me a straight question, the truth came out. This person then accused me of spreading rumours about them. Unfortunately they forgot to censor their racism to the person they were ranting at :S

I couldn't place why I was so upset. I'd heard and ignored much worse. You see it every day in places like the Daily Hate etc, so why was this bothering me so much?.

Well I figured it out eventually. I'm a firm believer that one person cannot be everything to you, and that each of your friends holds a piece of your heart. And so when that person does something like this, in a way it's the same as if your partner had assaulted you. It isn't just the assault that is the problem, it's the fact that it's someone who was supposed to love you had done it. Theres the double whammy. Get out of there, with friends like that, you don't need enemies.
(Before anyone asks I'm not likening domestic violence to name calling, just using it to make an analogy)

hugs x

RuthnJasper

shocked222 wrote: »

Thanks all. It should be easy shouldn't it? I should just be able to say that's it, end of story. I feel so silly, I'm actually in floods of tears. I do feel betrayed and feel like I've never really known her. She has been like my sister, I'm like a second mum to her kids. Behind my back though it's clear she has held this view that black people in her opinion are closer to animals than people. And in her mind, it's absolutely true. I'm so, so hurt and I'm hurt for her gorgeous little blonde haired, blue eyed kids who are going to be fed this utter bull. If ANYONE had said this, I would have been hurt, but my best friend. What she said was actually so disgusting I can't repeat it to the black side of my family because I'm so ashamed people actually think that way. I've managed to talk it through with my (white) parent and my godmother and they both feel I should end it.

To answer another question, no I had absolutely no idea she thought these things. I've shared all my twenties with her, I felt we'd grown up together. She was perfectly sober and perfectly clear about what she thought. I think I know I can't be friends with someone who looks at my family and thinks they aren't far off belonging in a zoo but still I've lost my best friend and an extended family.

Sweetie, please don't beat yourself up - you are NOT silly, not at all. I am glad that you have been able to talk it through a bit, and it's only right that you are grieving for the loss of the person you believed your friend to be. I know it's REALLY rotten - but you will find other friends - and ones whose minds aren't mired in ludicrous prejudice.

There MIGHT be a chance that, given enough time to reflect, she may realise that what she has been saying and thinking is twisted and wrong - but, sadly, I suspect not.

And SHE is the one who has really lost out here - she has lost your friendship and trust and it sounds likes she is losing a great deal in you than you are losing in her.

Ultimately, though, only YOU can make the decision here. And, if you want your friendship with her to continue, you need to consider the fact that she probably won't change her views, as well as the fact that she is likely to air them in your presence again in future. If you can still go on as before armed with this knowledge, then that's that. But this episode has obviously (and rightly) distressed you. I know that I wouldn't wish to continue a friendship with someone who thought that this was acceptable. There are enough sources of aggravation in this world as it is, without our best friends being one of them.

I sincerely wish you all the best. xx

Bluemeanie_2

shocked222 wrote: »

Ditto! People don't realise I'm mixed and come out with all the stuff they would never say in front of a black person - my brother is blonde! I'm a humanities and arts graduate, psychology post-graduate - had to study evolution as part of my psychology and REALLY wanted to tell her that she was talking utter dung.

I have this but with Gypsy and traveller heritage. My Great Grandma was settled and married a Gypsy man (Great Grandad). My Nanna's earliest memory was travelling from Norwich to Leicester to get building work. They became settled and all the family has been settled since then.
If I mention it to people they can make jokes that I take on the chin, like "that must be why you like buying and selling stuff" or why I like Paul's Boutique gear etc. Like I take all the sexist, ageist off the cuff comments people make in my stride.

However, what she said was outrightly purely offensive!!!

shocked222

Blue_Elephant wrote: »

Oh my. Have a hug or 3.

I have friends who have massively differing views to me on many subjects, politics, religion, you name it. As long as you have respect for the other persons views, it's fine. I'm from an Indian background, and, well, from my skin colour, you couldn't forget I'm not white . I also have a crisp English accent and am a bit of, well a coconut in terms of ideas, interests etc and frequently forget I'm not the same as everyone else as it NEVER comes up

One person I considered a friend (not a best friend admittedly), made some reference to "Pakis" in conversation, at which point I raised an eyebrow to be met with "Well *you* don't count". They managed to insult me twice in 30 seconds. I don't count? Obviously. I dropped them off my radar. didn't say anything to mutual friends as I didn't want to cause a row. But folk noticed I was going out of my way to avoid this person, and as I won't lie to my friends if they ask me a straight question, the truth came out. This person then accused me of spreading rumours about them. Unfortunately they forgot to censor their racism to the person they were ranting at :S

I couldn't place why I was so upset. I'd heard and ignored much worse. You see it every day in places like the Daily Hate etc, so why was this bothering me so much?.

Well I figured it out eventually. I'm a firm believer that one person cannot be everything to you, and that each of your friends holds a piece of your heart. And so when that person does something like this, in a way it's the same as if your partner had assaulted you. It isn't just the assault that is the problem, it's the fact that it's someone who was supposed to love you had done it. Thers the double whammy. Get out of there, with friends like that, you don't need enemies.
(Before anyone asks I'm not likening domestic violence to name calling, just using it to make an analogy)

hugs x

Thanks .

I would agree, its different when it is someone who holds a special place in your heart, its more of a betrayal. I did feel physically winded. Like you, i've had the "yeah.. but you don't count" thing or "I'm not talking about you.. i'm just talking about blacks in general." My boss said pretty awful things infront of me, it didn't hurt, it just made me have alot less respect for him. But this with my friend? Gutted. And a bit heart broken too. I could see her being my chief bridesmaid, her looking after my children one day, us all going on holiday. All that. Gone.

shocked222

RuthnJasper wrote: »

Sweetie, please don't beat yourself up - you are NOT silly, not at all. I am glad that you have been able to talk it through a bit, and it's only right that you are grieving for the loss of the person you believed your friend to be. I know it's REALLY rotten - but you will find other friends - and ones whose minds aren't mired in ludicrous prejudice.

There MIGHT be a chance that, given enough time to reflect, she may realise that what she has been saying and thinking is twisted and wrong - but, sadly, I suspect not.

And SHE is the one who has really lost out here - she has lost your friendship and trust and it sounds likes she is losing a great deal in you than you are losing in her.

Ultimately, though, only YOU can make the decision here. And, if you want your friendship with her to continue, you need to consider the fact that she probably won't change her views, as well as the fact that she is likely to air them in your presence again in future. If you can still go on as before armed with this knowledge, then that's that. But this episode has obviously (and rightly) distressed you. I know that I wouldn't wish to continue a friendship with someone who thought that this was acceptable. There are enough sources of aggravation in this world as it is, without our best friends being one of them.

I sincerely wish you all the best. xx

Thanks. You know as stupid as it sounds, a big part of me wants her to ring me and for her to have the horror of what she has said to dawn on her and for just to apologise and tell me she was wrong but it still isn't going to change anything. It would always be at the back of my mind.

VfM4meplse

OP, this woman was never your friend. You know her fixed views now, accept it and move on before your kids are adversely affected by her. They need to be confident in who they are, and proud of their heritage regardless of skin colour. They may look white, but they need to know their history is diverse and appreciate it's what makes them what they are.

Blue_Elephant wrote: »

I have friends who have massively differing views to me on many subjects, politics, religion, you name it. As long as you have respect for the other persons views, it's fine. I'm from an Indian background, and, well, from my skin colour, you couldn't forget I'm not white . I also have a crisp English accent and am a bit of, well a coconut in terms of ideas, interests etc and frequently forget I'm not the same as everyone else as it NEVER comes up

One person I considered a friend (not a best friend admittedly), made some reference to "Pakis" in conversation, at which point I raised an eyebrow to be met with "Well *you* don't count".

This is actually very common, along with the comment "well you're different" (implying "you're alright though") as a way of justifying racisim to the rest of your race. I've witnessed it several times, particularly in reference to "the Paki shop".

Personally I'd much rather be a coconut than a lychee.

RuthnJasper

shocked222 wrote: »

Thanks .

But this with my friend? Gutted. And a bit heart broken too. I could see her being my chief bridesmaid, her looking after my children one day, us all going on holiday. All that. Gone.

I do, completely understand. I know it's probably not what you want to hear right now - but look at this as a lucky escape. Imagine if the incident at the beach hadn't happened, and the first time she waxed lyrical about her vile and deluded opinions was as your chief bridesmaid at your wedding reception after she'd had a few glasses of the fizzy stuff. However rotten you feel now, at least you can spare yourself that horror. x

VfM4meplse

shocked222 wrote: »

Thanks. You know as stupid as it sounds, a big part of me wants her to ring me and for her to have the horror of what she has said to dawn on her and for just to apologise and tell me she was wrong but it still isn't going to change anything. It would always be at the back of my mind.

Do that to get it off your chest, but don't expect an apology! If she says she's sorry, it won't be sincere. Now that you've had a chance to reflect, you've picked up on other subtle comments so you know her poisonous beliefs are too deep-rooted to change.

lostinrates

Poor you op, but more to the point, poor her. Think of the number of people she could gain friendship and knowledge fro. Who she has written off because of their skiln colour.

But, i know i make assumptions sometimes too, not on skin colour, sometimes on culture though. I catch myself doing it and tick myself off. Something i would say is that i am surprised no one has pointed out that not just silly white women are racist. I have heard much racism from people of other skin colours. Its wrong whereever it comes from.

In this case i personally would write her a letter, telling her how shocked you were, how hurt you were and how you felt. Then leave it to her. She may well realise that her ideas are misguided at best, and realise that at least one not white person was of immense value in her life. I have known people realise their bigotry quite late in life, there is always hope!