Relocating overseas

sweaty_betty

Hi there - my OH lived out in South Korea for a few years and had a great time.

He also found that there was quite a bit of racism (e.g. as a rule westerners were unable to get a mobile phone contract at the time because they weren't Korean (or that's what he was told)) and there were a few times where we were refused entry to restaurants/bars for no other reason than our colour (from what we could see).

But the good points outweighed the bad - great transport (the subway system is fabulous), busy city with plenty to do, great for gadgets (if you like that kind of thing). He found it easy to learn to read Korean which was a big help if things weren't also spelled out in "roman" figures. He is also a big fan of the food - in fact we specifically go to Korean restaurants now he's back.

It's a great opportunity, especially with the safety net of working for a western company out there, which should mean stuff like medical costs, school fees etc are covered, so you're not having to worry about that.

Seoul is also a great place to be as you can, relatively easily, take a trip up to the North/South Korean border (an experience in itself) and you're close to the main airport, so could easily get trips to the rest of Asia for much cheaper than if you were travelling from the UK.

Hope you have a great experience there

Moominmamma

I'm so glad I posted now - thank you all for being so positive and giving me so much to think about

Angelil I'm very envious of you being near Paris you sound as though you're having a fantastic time! I don't think I'd even be thinking twice if we were relocating within Europe, pre-kids I spent a couple of years in France and a little while teaching in Greece, but Asia is so far away and I know our parents will miss the children loads.

evi, I'm seriously impressed by the amount of money you've managed to save!! Wow. Completely agree with the idea of thinking of you and your childrens' financial security, hats off to you I'm liking the thought of smaller class sizes too, my little boy is in a reception class of 35 and as far as I'm aware the legal maximum is 30, but I digress...

sweaty betty thanks for sharing your oh's experiences in Seoul, I have heard great things about the public transport system so that's definitely a draw as I can't drive! I really wasn't aware of the racism thing at all, but another poster has mentioned it too, although I suppose, sadly, wherever you go some people are going to be racist towards others Best to be aware though I guess.

I'm hoping we will get to travel a little while we're over there, dh will need to go to Taiwan and Japan occasionally, so we might be able to tag along, and I've always wanted to go to Borneo so this could be my chance!!

PoorCharleyBear

my DH lived in Singapore as a kid until he went to secondary school and loved it...only trouble is that it has given him itchy feet.


We have also lived in Australia for many years and loved the life there. Making friends can be tough but you have to accept any invites- even to the opening of an envelope!

Go for it- it is only for 2 years and you know you will not be living there in 20 years (check the repatriation clause in the contract!). Asia is a great place to live-although I am not sure about Seoul- and the warmth they show kids is wonderful.

(An Aussie friend lived in Seoul as part of her degree and she loved it)

...and have a look at https://www.britishexpats.com for people going/have gone through the same experience.

Blue_Monkey

Hello Moomin,

I work in HR for a big corporate and my job is to look after people relocating under our "international assignment policy". Your DH should have access to the equivalent in his company and it should contain information about what relocation support you might receive on the way out there and the way back (ie shipping, temporary accommodation), information about any allowances or payments the company will make (housing, schooling, cost of living, FX) as well as any additional services (tax support, immigration, healthcare).

If your DH works for a large-ish company, and international assignments are common, then all this should be readily available... If it's a smaller company then there might not be so much structure around it all (though thats not necessarily an issue).

I'm on maternity leave at the mo, but I can access what would be reasonable housing allowances etc from work so if you wanted to PM me with any specific questions I would be happy to give you a view on whether what is being offered by the employer is reasonable

Questions your DH might be asking at the moment are:

- What settling-in support is available for the initial move (ie help with finding homes, schools etc)
- What support is available for repatriation? Is there a claw back if I terminate the assignment early (ie hate it and want to come home)?
- What is the policy on tax, FX, cost of living?
- What happens after the 3 years in terms of his career?

One of the things my company does very very badly is succession planning... We literally spend millions on sending people abroad for a couple of years, only to have nothing for them to return to so they often get made redundant... I'm sure this is just a glitch at my company, but if it's probably worth getting your hubby to start these conversations now too.

Hope this helps... FWIW - aside from the above, I say go for it

conradmum

Moominmamma wrote: »

Kalama, just a word of warning before you come home; Saturday night telly is dire, I'd give it a miss and concentrate on scoffing chocolate and sprogging if I were you :rotfl:

I'm really pleased to hear that people have come to accept your dogs, not quite convinced anyone other than me is going to view mine as a "gift" but who knows? I feel slightly bad that I'm worrying more about the dog settling in than the kids!

peachyprice I'm glad you got your mum back dh keeps assuring me we can always come home too if it all goes horribly wrong.

Thanks for your reply conradmum, lots of food for thought - I will definitely have a look at your blog later. Can I just ask how old your son is and how he's finding attending a local school? Have you been learning Mandarin too? We're all going to be attending Korean lessons if we go! Oh, scrap that bit, just seen it's on your blog!

Awake again! We're moving tomorrow and I can't sleep!

I'm not sure which of your questions was answered on my blog but my son's eight, so the same as as your son. He's okay now with attending school but he did struggle for a few months. This was mostly because of his teacher, though, who didn't really want him in the class. I got him moved and now he's much better.

As I don't know anything about the Korean education system I couldn't comment on whether it would be a good idea for you to do the same. One difference with us is that we intend to live here for 6 years or so, so my son will have a good grounding in Mandarin when we come back. If you're going to be living in Korea for 3 years then it would be quite hard to maintain the language level they've acquired on your return, I'd say. Children will simply forget a language because the neural connections in their brains aren't 'set' until after puberty.

I am learning Mandarin but I'm not very good! I don't have the time (or patience) for formal lessons. Also, Asian education is very much 'shut up and listen to the teacher', which, as a former teacher, would drive me round the bend, as well as being ineffective. But if you could learn some survival Korean I'm sure it will make your lives easier.

There will of course be downsides to the experience, some of which you've already identified. As well as all the work and upheaval of moving, which, if you'll be renting your house out as you say you are and we've done, is huge, you'll also experience some culture shock, have to get used to another climate, make new friends, and possibly endure the guilt of upsetting your mum from the sound of it.

But being on an expat package should definitely smooth the road. Those living the expat lifestyle (as opposed to single people teaching English, for example) can to a large extent choose how much immersion they have in the local culture. I've met people who live very nice lives with no Mandarin nor really much contact with local people at all. Though as Blue Monkey says packages vary between companies.

By coincidence a close friend of mine moved out to Hong Kong a couple of years before we came here. Her husband's deal pays for a house in Discovery Bay which costs £8000 a month (no, that isn't a typo!), three flights home per year and international school education for her two children. She doesn't work and has someone to help around the house too. I can dream...:rotfl:

evi3000

One point I forgot to make is that to survive (at least here) make sure you throw yourself into the ex pat life and social scene. It can be very cliquey but you'll soon make some vey good friends!

PoorCharleyBear

Blue_Monkey wrote: »

One of the things my company does very very badly is succession planning... We literally spend millions on sending people abroad for a couple of years, only to have nothing for them to return to so they often get made redundant... I'm sure this is just a glitch at my company, but if it's probably worth getting your hubby to start these conversations now too.

I wonder if you worked for my old employer.(oil major?) as they were famous for this. Still it worked well for me as I wanted redundancy when I was repatriated!

Moominmamma

Thanks for the link PCB, I'll have a look at that later.

Blue Monkey, the housing allowance thing has been concerning me slightly.To be fair I don't know yet how much we will be allocated (sadly not on the level of conradmum's friend I wouldn't imagine!) but I am a bit alarmed at the disparity between what Google tells me is the average cost of a months rent for a 3 bed apartment and the cost of the ones I've seen online that I would be happy to stay in. It would be great to be able to PM you should the need arise further down the line - thanks

I will indeed try my hardest to break into the social scene, inveigling my way into cliques is not, it has to be said, a particular forte of mine but if it's a choice between that and spending 3 years as a Billy-No-Mates then I guess I'll have to give it a go! We will have Korean lessons if we go, and I've seen a cake course I'd like to do so I'm hoping that might give my social life a bit of a kick-start. Worst case scenario I'm sure my dog will be a conversation point. Though possibly not in a good way :rotfl:

Cheers for all the further info conradmum, and good luck with your move - the house looks fab

scooterpig

My husband and I relocated overseas (to the US) a couple of years ago, with his job. Overall, it's been a good experience but it definitely has its downsides too.

Look carefully at the terms of the package they're offering - accommodation, cars, healthcare, shipping, legal fees for visas etc, education, flights home, and so on and so on. Will they set you up with a relocation agent to help you find accommodation etc? Will they ship your furniture? If so, how much will they ship? Will they provide a tax specialist to sort out your taxes in both countries?

Even if the package is decent, moving overseas is still expensive. I hadn't bargained on how much it would cost us to replace electrical goods, insure a car etc. We sold our home in the UK but for almost a year we were paying both a mortgage and rent.

I found the adjustment to not working very daunting. Our rental was pretty crummy too and I got quite down many times in the first year. It was extremely hard to meet people and in that first year I only had one friend, another expat. Husband's job then got moved again and this time we bought a house which is great. I have more friends too, but again they are all expats - in this area it's very hard to make American friends.

Be prepared too to lose contact with people back home. My friends back home cried when I saw them the last time before moving. They made promises about emailing, and visiting. They've emailed me roughly three times in two years. I constantly emailed to start with, now I've given up. I miss my parents and phone them about once a week.

Petty frustrations can really get to you too. You'll likely not get this, but the "I love your accent' conversations wear thin very quickly. It can takes hours to shop in the supermarket as you can't figure out what stuff is. Bureaucracy is mindblowing and infuriating. The cost of living is high.

On the upside, the weather is good. The outdoor lifestyle is great. On the whole I enjoy living here. The key is to get as much information as you can and go into with your eyes open. In truth, nothing can really prepare you for living overseas, but getting as much info as possible will help in the long run.

Blue_Monkey

PoorCharleyBear wrote: »

I wonder if you worked for my old employer.(oil major?) as they were famous for this. Still it worked well for me as I wanted redundancy when I was repatriated!

Nope, not in the oil sector...

Moominmamma wrote: »

Blue Monkey, the housing allowance thing has been concerning me slightly.To be fair I don't know yet how much we will be allocated (sadly not on the level of conradmum's friend I wouldn't imagine!) but I am a bit alarmed at the disparity between what Google tells me is the average cost of a months rent for a 3 bed apartment and the cost of the ones I've seen online that I would be happy to stay in. It would be great to be able to PM you should the need arise further down the line - thanks

It will also depend on company policy. Some provide a full and generous housing allowance which will allow you to be in exclusive expat areas, some provide a contribution, some nothing at all... It will largely depend on what industry your hubby works in - oil, engineering and banking are usually generous and need to have good expat programmes to attract and retain good employees.

Housing, along with schooling and tax costs, is usually one of the most expensive parts of an international assignment (as a rough guide, I can think of a family of 4 from the UK to Singapore for 2 years and it's cost my company approx £250k on top of normal salary costs).

You may or may not be able to negotiate on the housing. My company is very fixed in terms of what we provide and it's based on family size and seniority - and negotiating is strongly discourage/banned.

I'm fairly sure if they are flying you out for a look-see, they will provide a home search consultant to help you source suitable properties, so that consultant will no doubt tell you whether your housing allowance is a realistic budget or not.

Good luck with it all, it's very exciting - and yes, do feel free to PM me if you want to!