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On now, "This World" on Greece.
Comments
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By understanding that it's not a problem to be fixed, but just a necessary and ongoing and permanent part of managing Europe. Some member states will need to be subsidised for the foreseeable future.Graham_Devon wrote: »how do you fix a problem by throwing yet another bailout and more debt to service at them?
Just as our own governments keep subsidising depressed areas, and they carry on being depressed areas. But we don't keep a tally of how much they owe us."It will take, five, 10, 15 years to get back to where we need to be. But it's no longer the individual banks that are in the wrong, it's the banking industry as a whole." - Steven Cooper, head of personal and business banking at Barclays, talking to Martin Lewis0 -
By understanding that it's not a problem to be fixed, but just a necessary and ongoing and permanent part of managing Europe. Some member states will need to be subsidised for the foreseeable future.
Just as our own governments keep subsidising depressed areas, and they carry on being depressed areas. But we don't keep a tally of how much they owe us.
I would suggest thatdepends entirely upon your definition of the European project.
Your idea seems closer to a Soviet Union type arrangement than what most think of as the European Union.0 -
There's only one way it can work. If we aren't going that way, we might as well scrap the whole thing. Start re-arming.I would suggest thatdepends entirely upon your definition of the European project.
Question for the Germans. If the aim of the EU and the euro is just to make it easier for some member states to exploit a competitive advantage over others, what exactly is supposed to be the point of it for the losers?"It will take, five, 10, 15 years to get back to where we need to be. But it's no longer the individual banks that are in the wrong, it's the banking industry as a whole." - Steven Cooper, head of personal and business banking at Barclays, talking to Martin Lewis0 -
I would suggest thatdepends entirely upon your definition of the European project.
Your idea seems closer to a Soviet Union type arrangement than what most think of as the European Union.
Indeed. That's basically the inevitable consequence that these countries' leaders idiotically signed them up to when they gave up monetary sovereignty. The Euro-zone is not an optimal currency area. It either has to be made into one by tighter political and economic union, or it will inevitably dissolve. It was all so predictable.0 -
Question for the Germans. If the aim of the EU and the euro is just to make it easier for some member states to exploit a competitive advantage over others, what exactly is supposed to be the point of it for the losers?
To my knowledge, all the "losers" joined voluntarily. A few cooked their books to do it. Maybe the question should be directed to them.
In the case of Greece, it seems it gave them the opportunity to borrow loads and loads of money to p!ss away.0 -
The Euro project was designed by the Eurocrats as a step towards a United States of Europe, but can't work unless they go the whole way of full political and fiscal union where the stronger areas support the weaker areas financially.
Redistribution of income is required rather than mere loans which counties such as Greece have no hope of repaying."When the people fear the government there is tyranny, when the government fears the people there is liberty." - Thomas Jefferson0 -
MacMickster wrote: »The Euro project was designed by the Eurocrats as a step towards a United States of Europe, but can't work unless they go the whole way of full political and fiscal union where the stronger areas support the weaker areas financially.
Redistribution of income is required rather than mere loans which counties such as Greece have no hope of repaying.
If you mean like the USA
I'm fairly certain that any one of the 50 states would be allowed to go down the drain by the other 49 and would get nothing from them in the way of a bailout0 -
MacMickster wrote: »
Redistribution of income is required rather than mere loans which counties such as Greece have no hope of repaying.
And down that road lays failure.
The system will always fail when applied accross nations. Why should the Germans work hard, be inventive and make careful thrifty plans just so as another group can chill out and spend the money they get sent AND not pay enough tax in return?
What really works is what Japan, Korea, Australia and plenty more do - trading alone and perfectly well for it.
The fact we used to war is about as relevant as the fact we used to hold jousting contests.0 -
HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »Yes of course it has.
That's what happens when you destroy an economy faster than you can reduce spending.
If the best you can do in this debate is attempt to find fault with one sentence and do a poor job at that then I'll consider the upper hand won.
As you'd know if you had anything more than a superficial understanding of the financial situation in Greece the decline in GDP has been relatively modest compared to the increase in debt (both nominal and as a % of GDP). Secondly, Greek austerity efforts didn't begin until noticeably after the issues I highlighted had begun.
I happen to believe that Europe could, and imo should, do more to help Greece than it has currently offered to; however to do so while the Greeks are still in absolute denial about the need to change their behaviour and expectations is entirely the wrong thing to do.
Feel free to keep spouting mass media factoids that suit your opinion, and by all means keep believing that fixing an economy is always as simple as throwing more money at it. You've shown here that you have a entirely superficial comprehension of the situation.Having a signature removed for mentioning the removal of a previous signature. Blackwhite bellyfeel double plus good...0 -
And have you seen the French police force? Bunch of idiots, if that Clouseau is anything to go by.Why should the Germans work hard, be inventive and make careful thrifty plans just so as another group can chill out and spend the money they get sent AND not pay enough tax in return?
There's always somebody who can't get past cartoon stereotypes."It will take, five, 10, 15 years to get back to where we need to be. But it's no longer the individual banks that are in the wrong, it's the banking industry as a whole." - Steven Cooper, head of personal and business banking at Barclays, talking to Martin Lewis0
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