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On now, "This World" on Greece.
Comments
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Why all this blaming Germany stuff.
I know. It's quite bizarre to blame Germany for the economic problems of Greece.
You can blame the EUR, and the greed behind the decision to join the club. They wanted the perceived benefits, but ultimately they are now paying the price of the addiction.
Of course they want to keep the EUR. It's like a drug that they don't want to be weaned off.'In nature, there are neither rewards nor punishments - there are Consequences.'0 -
In a way the greek problem (along with spain, Italy etc) is Germany.
The Euro is being kept to strong (for most of the Euro countries) by Germanys economy which is being supported by the Euro being too weak for the german economy to be reined in.
I read somewhere that were the Euro to fail and the Germans return to the mark exports from Germany would increase in price by 50-80% overnight as the weaker euro countries are holding down the euro's value.
The last thing Germany wants is the Euro to collapse as their economy would be devastated almost instantly.0 -
The bankrupting of Greece started a long time before the bailout.I agree. Germany, perhaps the biggest beneficiary of the Euro, is foisting on Greece exactly what was foisted on it after WW1.
The Germans simply exploited their competitive advantage - just like the Chinese against the West, and the Japs before them.
But we knew were were in open competition with the Japs and the Chinese. We weren't fellow members of a union. A union is supposed to prevent destructive open competition between its members and form a co-operative cartel against the rest of the world."It will take, five, 10, 15 years to get back to where we need to be. But it's no longer the individual banks that are in the wrong, it's the banking industry as a whole." - Steven Cooper, head of personal and business banking at Barclays, talking to Martin Lewis0 -
The bankrupting of Greece started a long time before the bailout.
The Germans simply exploited their competitive advantage - just like the Chinese against the West, and the Japs before them.
But we knew were were in open competition with the Japs and the Chinese. We weren't fellow members of a union. A union is supposed to prevent destructive open competition between its members and form a co-operative cartel against the rest of the world.
Is that even legal in terms of world trade?
That is the bit I have never quite understood when people keep referring to our European partners, when in many cases they are the competition.0 -
HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »No response from Graham then.....
Hamish, how do you fix a problem by throwing yet another bailout and more debt to service at them?
And sorry, I went to bed. Humblest apologies.0 -
HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »The Greek budget deficit rose 52% between Q1 2011 and Q1 2012, because austerity is crippling the economy, reducing tax income, and increasing welfare costs.
And of course a neo-nazi party, complete with Swastika-like flag and raised arm salutes, has just been elected to 21 seats in the Greek parliament.
Whatever the solution is, this isn't it....
Then what is the solution? Expect the people Greece owes to accept massive losses so that they can go back to avoiding tax and retiring early?
Greek public spending as a % of GDP has been higher over the last 3 years than before the crash and will remain around 50% of GDP even if the predictions (based on the austerity measures) were correct.
To write off 50% of Greek public debt (~€180 billion) would cost €400 per eu citizen (excluding Greece). That would be €26,000,000,000 from the UK. That's not far short of what we spend on education in a year and is around 20% of our own deficit.
Greece went into the financial crisis with a GDP:Debt ratio of around 1:1 (we were at about 1:0.4) which is worse than most countries after the deficit.
Having a signature removed for mentioning the removal of a previous signature. Blackwhite bellyfeel double plus good...0 -
Graham_Devon wrote: »Hamish, how do you fix a problem by throwing yet another bailout and more debt to service at them?
.
Graham, how do you fix a poverty problem by impoverishing more people?“The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie – deliberate, contrived, and dishonest – but the myth, persistent, persuasive, and unrealistic.
Belief in myths allows the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought.”
-- President John F. Kennedy”0 -
HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »Graham, how do you fix a poverty problem by impoverishing more people?
If their poverty is their own fault, why should it be fixed at the expense of others?0 -
HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »BBC2
Very interesting so far.
Don't spoil the ending for me - I've got it on the planner.0
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